#header-inner img {margin: 0 auto !important; #header-inner {text-align: Center ;} Fiji Coupfourpointfive: Wikileaks Cable: Who stopped the Political Dialogue Forum?

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011

Wikileaks Cable: Who stopped the Political Dialogue Forum?

Cables say Khaiyum was responsible for killing the talks that could've resulted in elections
Academic says illegal attorney general Aiyaz Sayed Khaiyum convinced Military Council to pull out of the political dialogue despite John Samy's efforts.

Sitiveni Halapua
Classified By: Charge d'Affaires, a.i. Richard K. Pruett; 
Reasons 1,4 (B), (D).  
1.  (C) Summary.  The move by Fiji's interim Prime Minister 
Commodore Voreqe Bainimarama to convene a "Presidential 
Political Dialogue Forum" (PPDF) to facilitate the conducting 
of a general election "as soon as practically possible" has 
opened a schism within the inner circles of the interim 
government (IG) between those in favor and those opposed to 
the forum.  The rift could cause the departure of 
Bainimarama's close advisor John Samy as early as October 27. 
It also throws into further doubt the IG's commitment to the 
PPDF process.  End summary. 
2.  (C) Dr. Sitiveni "Steven" Halapua, an eminent Tongan 
professor at the East-West Center in Honolulu who is also the 
"People's Representative" to Tonga's Constitutional and 
Electoral Commission, discussed with Embassy officers on 
October 23 his understanding of events leading to his 
selection by the IG as a "co-interlocutor" of the PPDF. 
(Retired Australian Foreign Service officer Robin Nair, an 
ethnic Indo-Fijian, is the other co-interlocutor.)  Halapua 
revealed that John Samy, a key advisor to Bainimarama, had 
persuaded Bainimarama to proceed with the PPDF despite 
collective opposition to the dialogue within the IG. 
According to Halapua, intramural criticism of the PPDF 
initiative so affected Samy that he is now drafting a 
memorandum of understanding governing his future relations 
with the IG, and if the IG does not accept his terms by the 
date of the PPDF's opening on October 27, then he is prepared 
to resign immediately from the government. 
3.  (C) Halapua disclosed that interim Attorney General Aiyaz 
Sayed-Khaiyum had rallied the entire Military Council of the 
Republic of Fiji Military Forces (RFMF) in opposition to the 
PPDF initiative.  According to Halapua, he had to terminate a 
meeting with Samy on October 21 when Bainimarama suddenly 
called Samy away to a meeting with Sayed-Khaiyum and the 
Military Council.  Halapua shared with us Samy's later 
account of the meeting.  Sayed-Khaiyum reportedly excoriated 
the PPDF as an ill-conceived idea coming at the wrong time. 
Asked in which way Sayed-Khayum thought the PPDF 
ill-conceived, Halapua replied that the interim attorney 
general seemed to think that the October 9 high court ruling 
dismissing the main legal challenge to the 2006 coup had 
given the IG a sort of carte blanche that obviated the need 
for any conciliatory measures for the present.  Sayed-Khaiyum 
also reportedly criticized Halapua and Nair as representing 
the interests of the international community -- by 
implication, in opposition to Fiji's national interests. 
4.  (C) Samy passionately argued in favor of allowing the 
PPDF to go forward.  Halapua did not elaborate much on Samy's 
arguments, except to say that Samy had warned Bainimarama 
that he would lose all credibility with respect to any future 
appeal for dialogue if he now aborted the PPDF process.  It 
had to have been a tour de force on Samy's part, because his 
argument carried the day against the articulate and 
persuasive attorney general. 
5.  (C) Sayed-Khaiyum's challenge before the Military Council 
reportedly still rankled Samy during a subsequent budget 
meeting he attended at which Sayed-Khaiyum was Chair. 
Afterward, Samy informed Bainimarama that he would no longer 
attend budget meetings if they are chaired by Sayed-Khaiyum. 
Bainimarama apparently told Sayed-Khaiyum of Samy's feelings, 
prompting the interim attorney general to ask Samy (perhaps 
patronizingly) "are you alright?"  Samy reportedly replied 
that by attacking Halapua and Nair, Sayed-Khaiyum had 
impugned Samy by association.  Halapua did not provide more 
details about Samy's spat with Sayed-Khaiyum, but he noted 
that Samy is an accomplished economist who had earlier turned 
down Bainimarama's offer to head Fiji's Ministry of Finance. 
Said Halapua, Samy's threat to boycott budget meetings is 
magnified by the fact that he possesses most of the financial 
credentials to be found in the committee. 
6.  (C) Samy's pique apparently did not end with 
Sayed-Khaiyum.  According to Halapua, Samy still feels so 
hurt for being mistrusted that he is now drafting a 
memorandum of understanding to govern his future relations 
with the IG and is prepared to resign from the interim 
government if the IG does not accept his terms by October 27. 
 In the course of advocating for the PPDF, Samy reportedly 
concluded that the IG had never been very serious about 
instituting a dialogue with the opposition.  Bainimarama had 
often blamed deposed Prime Minister Laisenia Qarase for not 
being willing to hold genuine talks, but Samy now feels that 
Bainimarama was simply projecting onto the opposition his own 
reluctance.  Halapua claimed that Samy now feels appalled 
that despite his work with the IG for over a year, during 
which time he was the principal architect of the draft 
People's Charter for Change, Peace and Progress, or blueprint 
for reforming Fiji's political culture, those in Fiji's 
ruling circle still don't have a vision for how to get there.  
7.  (C) Halapua mentioned his surprise in learning that John 
Samy is not as some portray him: a Rasputin-like eminence 
grise manipulating Bainimarama from behind the scenes.  He 
is, instead, as Nair has characterized him: the moderate in 
Bainimarama's inner circle.  (Comment:  Nair had earlier told 
embassy officers that Samy alone had been truly receptive to 
his proposals.  Nair is himself a moderate but does not share 
Samy's access to Bainimarama.  The only other moderate in 
Bainimarama's circle seems to be Permanent Secretary Parmesh 
Chand.  Chand does not seem as close to Bainimarama as Samy 
or Sayed-Khaiyum and appears seldom to take an advocacy role 
on policy issues.  End comment.) 
Robin Nair
8.  (SBU) Halapua and Nair are only now beginning to 
formulate their roles in the upcoming dialogue forum. 
Halapua had little idea yet of the modalities for the 
meeting, except that it would be held at the parliament 
complex in Suva and would include all 16 of Fiji's registered 
parties.  Each of the parties will be represented by 
principals plus one.  The IG will be represented by 
Sayed-Khaiyum as principal, accompanied by Samy.  Bainimarama 
will chair the meeting.  The meeting will be aimed at 
achieving an agenda and terms of reference for the PPDF 
sessions to follow. 
9.  (C) In light of Bainimarama's recent unhelpful 
stipulations that none of the parties come to the forum with 
demands, including any insistence on holding the IG to its 
earlier promise of elections by March 2009, Embassy officers 
suggested to Halapua that he and Nair try to impress upon 
Bainimarama the value in his taking a light approach to 
chairing the session, presiding over, but not necessarily 
running, the meetings.  As interlocutors, Halapua and Nair 
would foreshadow the role Sir Paul Reeves or his substitute 
would play in facilitating any future sessions.  They could 
play an important role in shaping the context of discussions 
in order to promote genuine dialogue, so careful focus now on 
establishing ground rules and processes could pay big 
dividends for this and any future meetings.  Halapua seized 
on the word 'process' and began to think aloud about seating 
and other arrangements.  He toyed with the idea of flanking 
Bainimarama with himself and Nair.  He was especially pleased 
with the thought that Sayed-Khaiyum would not be able to pass 
notes directly to Bainimarama but would instead need to go 
through Samy.  (According to Halapua, Samy had originally 
sought to distance himself from the PPDF for fear his 
participation in it might somehow muddle his promotion of the 
draft Peoples Charter, but Samy later changed his mind 
because his participation might help to neutralize 
Sayed-Khaiyum's baleful influence.)  Halapua added that he 
and Nair are in the process of writing out some ground rules 
for the proceedings. 
Sir Paul Reeves
10.  (SBU) The idea of a presidentially-sanctioned political 
dialogue seems to have originated out of the April meeting of 
the National Council For Building a Better Fiji (NCBBF)  in 
which it called for a forum of all parties, convened by the 
president, to discuss electoral reform.  (The IG established 
the NCBBF to promote the adoption of the draft People's 
Charter.)  Subsequently, Fiji's major parties, including 
Qarase's Soqosoqo Duavata ni Lewenivanua (SDL) party, agreed 
to participate on the condition that the forum discuss more 
than just electoral reform.  The idea for the Forum 
languished when Bainimarama made it clear he would not accept 
Fiji constitutional law expert Sir Paul Reeves of New Zealand 
as its chair, despite Reeves' endorsement for the position by 
the Commonwealth's secretary general.  The IG had suggested 
three other names, feeling that Reeves was already too wedded 
to Fiji's present political system, which he had helped to 
codify as the chair of the Fiji Constitution Review 
Commission from 1995 to 1997.  The Commonwealth's secretary 
general persisted in supporting Reeves for the role.  Reeves 
reportedly believed that elections could be held in March 
2009 as Bainimarama had originally promised the PIF 
leadership at its 2007 summit in Tonga.  Reeves also 
reportedly wanted the Forum broadened to include more than 
issues of electoral reform (e.g., a date certain for 
elections), whereas Bainimarama was adamant that its 
discussions be limited to electoral reform.  Bainimarama 
effectively sidelined Reeves by saying he would only accept 
him as an advisor or facilitator, and not as Chair, to which 
Reeves did not assent.  Later statements by Bainimarama and 
the NCBBF then seemed to delay the convening of the Forum 
indefinitely by making it contingent upon prior acceptance of 
the Peoples Charter. 
Mick Beddoes (back left) and Laisenia Qarase
11.  (SBU) Halapua and East-West Center President Charles 
Morrison visited Fiji in September to push their idea of a 
"talanoa" consultative process to bring the IG together with 
Qarase and other major opposition figures.  They explained 
their ideas to Bainimarama, Qarase, Samy, Fiji Labour Party 
leader Mahendra Chaudhry, resident heads of diplomatic 
missions, and virtually every other major political figure in 
Fiji, with the exception of oppositionist Mick Beddoes of the 
United People's Party, who was unavailable.  They found most 
parties generally receptive to the idea but very distrustful 
of the other participants.  Subsequently, Robin Nair, in his 
capacity as a member of the so-called Independent Monitoring 
Group (IMG), which was ostensibly established by President 
Iloilo to provide independent oversight of the preparation 
process for the People's Charter, made his own attempt at 
promoting dialogue.  He attempted to persuade Bainimarama to 
de-link the PPDF from progress on the People's Charter.  He 
also tried to sell the IG on the idea of using a well-known 
conflict resolution group to lead the PPDF as a way to 
mediate an end to Fiji,s political impasse.  Nair was 
disappointed by Bainimarama's cool response to his proposals; 
the commodore promised only to take Nair's idea under 
advisement for later discussion with Republic of Fiji 
Military Forces' Military Council. 
 12.  (SBU) Further impetus to the idea of a political forum 
came with generally supportive statements by New Zealand and 
Australia.  Helpful, too, was the announcement by Opposition 
Leader Mick Beddoes that he had dropped his earlier 
insistence on first establishing terms of reference and was 
now willing to participate in a proposed Presidential 
Dialogue Forum even without an agenda.  According to Beddoes, 
the IG and the representatives of the various parties could 
establish rules of engagement and an agenda at their first 
meeting or two and just go on from there.  Beddoes' statement 
echoed earlier, more equivocal statements of support by both 
Qarase and Chaudhry.  The October 9 High Court ruling 
dismissing Qarase's legal challenge to the 2006 coup clearly 
threw the opposition off-balance.  These developments seem to 
have emboldened Samy to propose to Bainimarama a serious push 
with the PPDF. 
13.  (C) Sayed-Khaiyum's argument against holding the 
Presidential Political Dialogue Forum at this time was at 
least half-right -- it is indeed ill-conceived, in the sense 
that the IG has given little thought to its preparation. 
Sayed-Khaiyum and other elements of the IG clearly seem to 
see little personal value in dialogue.  They had surely 
weighed against the idea when Nair had first broached the 
idea of a PPDF de-linked from the Charter process. 
Bainimarama only seemed to have agreed to the PPDF on an 
impulse under Samy's suasion.  He apparently had even signed 
the invitation letters to the forum before consulting with 
Sayed-Khaiyum and the Military Council.  (On a conscious or 
unconscious level, this appears to have been deliberate, as 
though Bainimarama wanted to force the issue.)  He apparently 
caved in to their criticism of the dialogue initiative before 
calling Samy in to defend the proposal.  Bainimarama appears 
to have given little real thought to how a dialogue should be 
constructed or to what ends.  Even Halapua and Nair, both 
intelligent men and major proponents of dialogue, were caught 
somewhat flat-footed by Samy's success in persuading 
Bainimarama to let the forum to go forward. 
14.  (C) By inviting even new and obscure parties to the 
dialogue forum, Bainimarama is able to mitigate some of the 
influence of the real opposition heavy-weights arrayed 
against him -- viz., Qarase, Chaudhry, and to a lesser extent 
Beddoes.  He also ingratiates himself somewhat with the 
smaller parties.  After suffering the opposition's slings and 
arrows, Bainimarama--especially if he resists the temptation 
to resort to his usual blustering--might conceivably even 
emerge as a sort of compromise figure if Qarase and Chaudhry 
eventually turn their rhetorical firepower on each other. 
Another, more cynical possibility is that some or all of the 
new parties are bogus and created by the IG in order to pack 
the deck at the forum. 
15.  (C) The likelihood is that Bainimarama will not succeed 
in playing a statesman but will resort to form by attempting 
instead to bully the opposition to accept the draft Peoples 
Charter as Fiji's vision statement.  If the first session 
adjourns with a date for a second, it will be no small 
victory and would bode well for Fiji's ability to demonstrate 
progress at the December meeting of the PIF in Papua New 
Guinea.  If the dialogue fails, the recriminations likely 
will fly fast and furious.  The chances for the dialogue to 
survive the first meeting are probably less than even, but if 
the parties ever do settle down to a genuine give and take, 
they may find common areas for agreement on important issues 
related to election reform and confirmation of some form of 
amnesty for Bainimarama and his people.  Perhaps most 
optimistically, the parties represented in the 2006 
parliament could agree to a choreographed session by a 
reassembled parliament at which the draft People's Charter 
could be ratified or referred to a referendum or early 
consideration by a newly-elected parliament -- similar to the 
historic compromise between Federalists and Anti-Federalists 
that led to the adoption of our own Bill of Rights by the 
First U.S. Congress.  As Dr. Halapua put it to Embassy 
officers, dialogue may be painful, but in light of the 
alternatives, it still remains the preferred "soft option." 
End comment. 


Curious Cat said...

Leaks painting a new picture of Samy so the question must be asked: is Halapua the interlocutor reliable?

Anonymous said...

This all hog wash!! When oh when are people going to realise and accept that THERE WILL BE NO ELECTIONS AS LONG AS THESE PEOPLE ARE ALIVE! PERIOD!!

Anonymous said...

Aiyass is such a dickhead..he thinks that this would be the perfect opportunity to live the high life..fill up his pockets..enjoy his short stint with fame and it would end all too soon..enjoy while it lasts Aiyasss cause we are out to get you big time and we would only hope that you and your partner in crime Bai would sleep well every night..not..

Anonymous said...

Fijians and the Indians in Fiji are dumb.
They can't see the rug is pulled
over their eyes.
Fiji deserves all the crap that's coming their way.
Baini and A.S.K. have your balls in a vice all he has to do is squeeze.


Anonymous said...

Aiyaz is the real boss.
The sotia ni solisona too dumb.

Vani said...

3 Musketeers – John Samy, Aiyaz Sayed-Khaiyum and Voreqe Bainimarama. How do they fare?

John-Samy: The Fallen?
Halapua revealed that John Samy, a key advisor to Bainimarama, had persuaded Bainimarama to proceed with the PPDF despite collective opposition to the dialogue within the IG. Samy passionately argued in favor of allowing the PPDF to go forward.

Aiyaz: The So-Called-Intellectual-Power-Monger? Halapua disclosed that interim Attorney General Aiyaz
Sayed-Khaiyum had rallied the entire Military Council of the Republic of Fiji Military Forces (RFMF) in opposition to the PPDF initiative. Sayed-Khaiyum reportedly excoriated the PPDF as an ill-conceived idea coming at the wrong time... the interim (ILLEGAL) attorney general seemed to think that the October 9 high court ruling dismissing the main legal challenge to the 2006 coup had given the IG a sort of carte blanche that obviated the need for any conciliatory measures for the present. Sayed-Khaiyum and other elements of the IG clearly seem to see little personal value in dialogue. (Is the nation of Fiji, its citizens and its future your own Miss Personality Contest, Aiyaz?

Bainimarama – The Stupido-Coward? In light of Bainimarama's recent unhelpful Stipulations…The idea for the Forum languished when Bainimarama made it clear he would not accept Fiji constitutional law expert Sir Paul Reeves of New Zealand as its chair,… Bainimarama was adamant that its discussions be limited to electoral reform… Nair was disappointed by Bainimarama's cool response to his proposals; Bainimarama appears to have given little real thought to how a dialogue should be constructed or to what ends… By inviting even new and obscure parties to the dialogue forum, Bainimarama is able to mitigate some of the influence of the real opposition heavy-weights arrayed against him -- viz., Qarase, Chaudhry, and to a lesser extent Beddoes…The likelihood is that Bainimarama will not succeed in playing a statesman but will resort to form by attempting instead to bully the opposition to accept the draft Peoples Charter as Fiji's vision statement.
Aha! Dream-on at being a statesman. More like a Soon-to-be-toilet- cleaner-at-Naboro prison.

One day Mafatu!

Kenneth Zinck said...

Despite the Presidential Political Dialogue taking place or not one thing must be clear, those that did the coup in 2006 and those that aided and abetted it must be charged with TREASON and must go to jail for life just like George Speight did. Only after they all go to jail, will the rest fall in place automatically and peacefully for our beloved country, Fiji. Kenneth Zinck

Kenneth Zinck said...

Despite the Presidential Political Dialogue taking place or not one thing must be clear, those that did the coup in 2006 and those that aided and abetted it must be charged with TREASON and must go to jail for life just like George Speight did. Only after they all go to jail, will the rest fall in place automatically and peacefully for our beloved country, Fiji. Kenneth Zinck

Ratu said...

Interesting how foreigners and our fellow Indo-Fijians dorminate the process for resolving Fiji's future while the indigenous people are sidelined.

How can we agree to this process??????.....where we are spectators in decisions affecting our country, land, heritage and future???????? I am not in this fraud

Observer said...

Oh! yes, John Sami is reliable. He might be a consultant who lives on contracts but he is genuine in his concerns for Fiji.

Let us look at issues realistically and do not be overwhelmed by our own mindsets.

Anonymous said...

hahaha now we see ag taliban is the main mover/saker.
bai is just a puppet.
time for some muslim to run soon from fiji.
fijian wake up before fiji is gone to the talibans.

mark manning said...

The point is, the Regime is illegal and its policies built on quicksand and no matter how ell intentioned, doomed to failure.

One point lost on everyone seems to be, that any changes could have taken place through the already established process of an " Elected " Government and Parliament.

There just was no need for another coup d'etat, other than to save Frank Bainimarama from a lengthy prison sentence for his part in the deaths of the 5 CRW Soldiers in 2000.
He was the only one who had anything to gain from overthrowing Fiji's Government, at that point in time.
However, since December the 5th. 2006, many more have benefited at the expense of the Fijian population.

Anonymous said...

C4.5 is just wasting time and resources in digging old bones. Why can't we focus on getting us out of the deadly misery that the people are facing today. AG have been spending a lot of time (reliable source) consulting people to map out his exit strategy, but none seems attractive. So the big question is can we all stand up for our future now? If not this regime will continue for another decade or so.

Radiolucas said...

This paints a new picture of John Sami - but he still played with the devil and I don't rate him any higher than RUM.

The sad part of this picture is that Frank has ALWAYS had wiser heads around him advising him, yet he chose to listen to Aiyaz and go play with guitars while the country burns.

Disgusting and shameful.

Democrat said...

All documents signed since 2006 by the IG and its satellites such as FEA, FWA, FNPF, etc, are illegal so why worry. They can all be reversed. The new democratic government can pick and chose those that are worth keeping.

Anonymous said...

Voreqe Polo Levu permalink
Rate This
Voreqe’s scrotum swells to 45kgYahoo!7
October 19, 2011, 9:17 am 9 Commentstweet0EmailPrint

Fiji coup leader frank with an unusual medical condition where his scrotum has swelled to over 45kg is hoping for donations of up to $1 million to get surgery to cure his condition.

Voreqe suffers from a condition known as scrotal elephantiasis, which makes it hard for him to use the bathroom or walk.

Voreqe hoped that making his medical issue public would help him get much needed funds for the costly operation to fix the problem.

“It’s not easy to get around,” he told the Fiji Sun, “It makes me stay in most of the time.”

Life has been difficult since he developed the rare condition three years ago.

The condition is usually caused by a parasitic infection, and is most commonly seen in the tropical areas of Africa and Asia.

“I want to have real friends and a relationship with a woman,” he said.

“But I’m not suicidal. I’m too strong for that.”

“I don’t like being a freak, who would?” he said. “But I figured that the Stern show is listened to by millions of people and they might want to help me. I hope some millionaire or billionaire will want to help me.”

Voreqe believes his condition stemmed from an accident back in 2000 where he ran down a cassava patch dodging bullets from his own troops and caught his testicles with his leg.

The scrotum swelled to the size of a soccer ball the next day, and kept on growing.

Anonymous said...

Fijian people deserve the current miltary control of the government. They have been too greedy to share their resources and land for the growth and development of Fiji. When you fly or drive over Viti Levu so much of idle land, only a portion of coastal land is used. Why the greed man, share for the betterment and growth of Fiji through efficient and agreeable means of landuse where you as a landowner can benefit and reap the rewards in a fair and equitable manner.

mark manning said...

It's sounding like it's time to do a deal !

Anonymous said...

Well this says it all and no wonder the idea was dumped by the military council....Halapua has compromised his position by talking to the foreign embassies. This is a solution for the people of Fiji and not some hegemonic powers. Good thing they dumped it!!

Anonymous said...

No "hogwash" here. The cable presciently called the collapse of the PPDF months ahead of time and Samy's departure, too. The "foreigners" are not trying to determine Fiji's future at all; they're just encouraging dialogue among Fijians and reporting -- accurately in this case -- what/who is standing in the way. By the way, the PPDF was supposedly mandated by President Iloilo, yet Bainimarama felt free to scrap the dialogue process... just one day before he abrogated Fiji's constitution, claiming he needed to do so to honor a "mandate" from Iloilo.

Anonymous said...

Just think about it...do we honestly think that after all their misdeeds and filling their pockets...that they will really hold fair and free elctions??? It is as clear as daylight that either they will rig the elctions thru this so-called electronic voting or there will be no elections at all...I mean VB has been shifting it since day one...what makes 2014 any different?...so why kill the goose that lay the golden egg when they can continue to milk the country,the treasurey and taxpayer's dry...coz they know that they will surely lose a fair elections and once they lose...they will account for all their actions!!!Maybe I am wrong but I honestly don't buy into this 2014 election bullshit!!!

Anonymous said...

Mr Zinck comments"those that did the coup in 2006 and those that aided and abetted it must be charged with TREASON and must go to jail for life just like George Speight did".Sorry Kenneth it has to include those that were also involved in earlier coups! Why just 2006-because you got kicked out?Sorry!

Anonymous said...

Mark Manning says"There just was no need for another coup d'etat, other than to save Frank Bainimarama from a lengthy prison sentence for his part in the deaths of the 5 CRW Soldiers in 2000".
When you don't know too much about what was going on behind the scenes-please keep your so called CLEVER opinions for dopes! There were far bigger issues that were going both in the Military, Council of Chiefs, Fijian Affaits & Native Land than you will ever know! Those concepts if applied would have made Fiji just another South Africa in the guise of enhancment of Indigenous Rights! How about comment about the neglect of the Indigenous black people of Australia some has commented on here in C4.5! I notice you have not said a single word on Aboriginals in Australia-whose lives are far, far , far worse than any Fijian can ever imagine -yet Australia says its a democracy well guess what i have a Fiji the way it is rather than have a democracy like Australia with its Indigenous people dying like they suffering form the PLAGUE! Doce!

Anonymous said...

Qarase had bad ADVICE and AND WORST still bad ADVISORS! You don't hvae to be a genius to figure out the quality of adivce-it was one stupid saga after another-yet he persisted. It was a totally diffrent agenda thatwas been presented to the people and another discussed in private meets!

Anonymous said...

The political reality in Fiji and around the world is that successful coup makers dont go to prison and unsuccessful coup makers go to prison.
The 2000 coup failed and the 2006 succeded because you and the SDL sat on your arses when Frank started making threats and no one arrested him. Now he can only be removed by force and everyone is just talking and not shooting. In such a case the only route is a political settlement and that will not result in frank and comp going to prison.

Anonymous said...

Digging through old bones lets us rattle them now!

Vanua. said...

@ Ratu 7:35.

Vinaka - wonder when it will dawn on them? Big Viti issue with Vore -why is his Roko still in exile?
Big Fiji issue with these other people is every time they converse & look at Vore - just remember one simple thing - he's killed people getting where he is.

Kenneth Zinck said...

To those that commented on my comments, yes I agree lets put in jail all who did coups since 1987, but to say that Qarase and our Govt did not do anything about Frank, sorry mate Frank brought TREASON upon himself by the power of the GUN when he knows fully well that the army is subservient to the Govt of the day, nothing else. No one anywhere in the world can takeover an elected govt becos its a crime punishable by death. Frank had other sinister motives for doing the coup and time will reveal all this in the future when the TREASON court case begins and State witnesses like Roko Ului come forward and tell all. I look forward to that day when all will be jailed for TREASON. Kenneth Zinck

Anonymous said...

Apart from the fact that he himself is a foreigner, why shouldn't Halapua be free to confide in a foreign embassy, or anyone else, his views as to why the PPDF failed? Too bad he couldn't do so publically, but then, didn't Baini give Robin Nair the boot for trying the public approach?

Anonymous said...

Kenneth you should sometimes let sleeping dogs lie! There was corrupt pracitces going on -either you were in the know or you were just a dumb ! Here is one to chew on what happened to the investigations into the Govt Phamaceutical services-drugs bought from overseas that had only 3 months EXPIRY dates on them-when the Auditor General in his then report said there was sufficient evidenced availble for the case to be handed over to the Police! Nothinh happned as the file was taken form MOH to the Office of the CEO of Publich service Commission and never saw daylight again! Don't have to guess who was heading the Govt Pharmacy Dept then!Drugs shipped off to various Health Centres around Fiji who didn't even order them?Drugs that should never be sent to Nursing stations and Health Centres got them! Why? So they could clear there stock of drugs with just a month left for it to go into the rubbish bin! Now why don't you have Guess-after all your vote was crucial to the Qarase Govt then to keep them in power!
Don't hear you saying too much of Kaitani or the famous Lady form Lomaiviti whose travelled on a Diplomtic passport and their abuse of the system-or didn't you know !

Anonymous said...

Zinck ,Qarase had all the opportunities in the world to get rid of Frank & the President . What he lacked was the courage! In his Lauan dialect its called 'e jikai na qanibulu"! Frank is a product of our once stupidity-to that end we will continue to suffer until we learn our lessons. I said it than and i will keep saying-when we do things thru the process of deceit, our facalties for reasoning deprive us of seening things were they are headed, of realising the long term effects of our deeds-Today we now act wise and say "all will be revealed"! Revelations for what-it was already revealed to the peoples of Fiji that were had a poor Leader in Qarase, who thought he was tough-ask him now if he regrets what has happpened and if it could have been done better and the simple answer is "YES"!We are now eating of the seeds of the plant that was planted and nutured called "mosi ai cici"- well we all now know who was looking after the plant!Too late to cry-others cried and left Fiji when we had the first coup-now we hear a second & third voice-were we you when the first voicers cried? The question is have we really learnt our lessons-i don't think so! Prove me wrong-as the old people used to say"Lutu a niu lutu i vuna" How correct they were.

Kenneth Zinck said...

To the anonymous writer that commented on the drugs that the Govt Pharmacy ordered from overseas that had only three months expiry date on them. First of all you know nothing of Govt machinery and processes and that such malpractices do not end up in Cabinet meeting where I can have a say but is dealt with the Minister of Health and the PS. As such as Minister of Labour I am not in the know of this skulguggery of which you know so much about. I dont hide the fact that my first cousin was the Head of Govt Pharmacy then, but if he was guilty of any crime well pull him up. The biggest problem in Fiji today is every body let the sleeping dogs sleep while the thieves burgle our tax and rape our democracy. We should now wake up the sleeping dogs so they can do something for us. As for the writer who wanted me to comment on my minister colleague Caucau and Kaitanis sins ,I think their sins put together is but a raindrop compared to the sins of Bainimarama, Khaiyum, Nailatikau, Ricketts, Shameems, Gates, etc etc etc. These people committed TREASON that is punishable by death guys. The country is suffering today because good people dont speak up and to top it off there is so much LIU MURI or AGHE PICHE. Yes we didnt have a perfect govt when we ruled from 2001 to 2006 but at least you had the chance to vote us out, as in a proper democracy. Today what do you get NOTHING, DRAVUSA KULUKULU, while they steal our tax on a daily basis. This dictatorship has to GO and there is nothing noble about a coup. Two wrongs dont make a right. When the illegal govt leaders now all go to Naboro only then will the Fiji people be freed from their bondage and slavery. Only GOD knows when that day will come but it will come. No dictator and his cronies live forever. They come and they GO. Kenneth Zinck

Anonymous said...

na i valu oqo e sega ni noda. me da kerei koya ga e nona me qai cakava na ka e lomana. ni da na via siova, dua, eda sana viavia kalou, ka na vakatikitiki tale na kalou mai na nona qarava na nona itavi. vei kemuni na sotia, veitalia ga na kena sa rairai donu tu beka vei kemuni na ka o ni sa cakava tu oqo. moni nanuma tiko nia tekivutaki mai ena cala ka na laki tini ena cala. na ka e caka tiko qo vei kemuni, mo galu kina ka muria tiko ga na gaunisala butobuto ko ni sa kau tiko kina.

Anonymous said...

Vinaka Zinck
When the 6 colonels out of 8 wrote a letter to PM and President that Frank was planning a coup,,,what the fark were Qarase et al doing dilly dallying all over the place? They should have just passed the letter to Police Com and arrest Frank. Look where we are now cause of the dilly dallying. The lesson there is that weak leaders such as Qarase et al must never return.
As for now, no amount of talk and sanctions will remove frank. He only understands force and looks like not even the soldiers like ului and JB want to go down that path.
The only option therefore is for a negotiated settlement via international community. You can't even think of putting Frank in prison right now if you cant even organise his overthrow.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 2.02

Negotiated settlement with international community? hahah...you gotta be kiddin', that time's long gone, people want justice and are prepared to wait for it.

History should tell you that dictators don't last.

Frank's dictatorship will be defeated, it's not a question of IF but WHEN.

There's no way out for Frank et al but to give in peacefully if they want to save their families... as like the others, they all pay either way.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Kenneth , Kenneth whilst the head of Pharmacy was getting investigated he was moved from the Pharmacy to MOH Headquarters! One would have thought whilst one is under serious investigations you go home like everyone else who is under investigation.So didn't evem know when the Auditor General reporetd that the head of Pharmacys file should be sent to the Police as there was no need to carrying on investigating-na butako e a caka tiko-arrree Chroo job was going on and you as a Cabinet Minister had no idea yet the ordinary clerks knew of the Auditor Generals report!Maybe you were too busy cheering for the 7's team to know what was happening in Govt-were you aware of the letter signed by senior officers-No?? This was a case where the file "got missing in action" at PSC level not MOH! The country is suffering today because of the lack of 'guts' by those in govt at the tme to face the bull an grab it by the horns-what you guys were doing was tickling its balls or in lingo playing with its soresore!You yourself were more than eager to join the Govt but on the basis of getting Cabinet position-say i lie!

Anonymous said...

So now Kenneth some sins like the sins of your former Govt mates are just "rain drops", what were you waiting for a deluge before you did a thing? If we all waited for your Govt to carry on till today we would all be in a tin boat by now! Is it right now whats happening in Fiji -no it isn't but you were part of the system that was to keep watch for the peoples of Fiji! Todays sufferings are part of watching too much rugby in KING KONG, whilst Hong Fong was playing with Ding Dong! Are you suprised-did you open your mouth in Cabinet when the issues of Bainimarama /President came up? Or are you going to use the old adge-cabinet meetings are confidential!You guys guys didn't have the foggies idea on how to lead a country you were too busy trying to play "cowboys vs Indian" and found out too late you had guns but no bullet only the arrow! Dri Yani!

Kenneth Zinck said...

I appreciate all the comments attributed to me above and let me just say this, no government is perfect let alone senior civil servants. Yes I may be cheering for the Fiji Team in Hong Kong not knowing the skulduggery going on in other government departments, such is the processes in government and I am not a magician or a god to know all the imperfections in govt let alone fix them. One thing is sure though despite all the ills and sins of a government NO ONE and I mean NO ONE has the right to COUP the government because that is TREASONOUS. You want to remove a govt then vote them out. The comments above against QARASE and our Govt smacks of jealousy and bitterness over the victory of our Govt in the 2006 General Election although I lost in this Election. The principles of justice, human rights, freedom of expression, fair play, must always be paramount in our minds. Those that are commenting against what I say above, have you ever said anything against the coup leaders, Bai, Khaiyum, Nailatikau, Tikoitoga, Shameems, Gates, Keans, Ricketts, etc etc etc Have you? if not than stop wasting yout time as an anonymous contributor to this column and SHUT UP for goodness sake. Kenneth Zinck

Pina Wani said...

Vinaka ruarua, se vinaka tolutolu. Good debate.

Anonymous said...

Go Zinck - you dah man!

Good debate, savasava ruarua.

Zinck you need to return when democracy is restored and stand for Parliament.

Anonymous said...

Sobo zinck dont take it personally bro,,,,,
for now just relax cause frank will only go in a hail of bullets but no one is willing to make those bullets fly.....so lets just do what we good at now ie kakase, grog and watching the Gold Coast 7s in 4 wks.

Anonymous said...

Sa bera Zinck-trying to make out now to don't know everything that was going on in Govt is ok but surely you must had been reading the newspapers in Fiji! Didn't that tell you something was wrong -were you just like Qarase to arrogant-to see what would have happened-you can't tell you you never thought a coup could happen again in Fiji-so what was all the fuss going on with trying to remove Frank! As someone mentioned here you guys in Govt were to busy with your own agenda of playing "cowboys vs Indians" era wele na Indians who worked the farms-whilst Qarases Govt got NLTB staff to go around tell landowners not to renew the leases?? Now you all complaining-you never get to give the fox the opportunity to guard the chicken farm, now the foxes have all disappered and whats left for Fiji-the big bad wolf!If you would have opened your mouth and said lets concentrate on Govening Fiji instead of playing the "race card' i can understand the point you now trying to make but you didn't! You had the balance of power one time Bro and simply didn't know how to use-cause you were just to GREEN! That chance will never come around again beleive me!

Taukei. said...

@ Anon 11:41. Lets play cards.

If you can't see what is patently obvious within 'Fijian' society your in big trouble - 2 competing cultures - 1 Island guarantee's it & threatening people for acknowledging something that is patently obvious is not the way you'll solve it.

Taukei are indigenous - transient Indians are not.

The Oracle said...

Kenny Zinck - calling for people to put their names to paper like you do - YES, from the comfort of Australia!!!! What a hypocrite!!!

While here you were either quite as a mouse or writing on blogsites using fictitious names like the rest of us. If so strong, why run away to Australia and wage a war of words to back your asylum application?

Your beloved SDL is a dead horse just as you are as a politician.
Someone said it earlier - Andrew Hughes and Qarase dilly dallied - they wanted to give Bainimarama as much rope as he wanted, hoping he would hang himself. In that respect, they failed miserably in their own duty to the nation - they should have arrested the man before he was cornered. They had all the evidence, but obviously not all the balls to act.

We in Fiji are now paying the price for Hughes and Qarase's inaction. Qarase, through his inaction is UNFIT to lead Fiji ever again.

Agreed ...Frank and Co deserve to be tried for treason and jailed. BUT don't expect us in Fiji to accept the SDL back so readily.

The time has come for visionary leaders who are more focused on taking Fiji and our multiracial population forward .. not leaders who are narrow-minded, racist and keen to line their own pockets.

Oh, and yeah, you weren't in the last Parliament because you failed to retain your seat. WHY? Because you liumuried the minorities when you accepted a ministerial position in the Qarase government!!!

My advice to you - argue your asylum case so that Australia can shelter you and don't bother coming back - we can certainly do without people like you - like Shakespeare's drum - full of sound and fury - signifying nothing!!!

Taukei. said...

@ KZ.

Judging by reaction?
Always a fair indication your getting up their collective nose's when attempts to impose their dazzling intelect involves quoting long dead English playrights.

"You are not fashioned for these times - when non will sweat but for promotion". WS.

Tell it as you see it - not as it was.

Kenneth Zinck said...

Obviously the Oracle dont know me from a bar of soap. I write letters etc in my own name in the papers and wherever I socialise I say what I think about Bainimarama, Khaiyum, Ricketts, Shameems etc. My letters to all the papers in Fiji has since been barred from print under the illegal regimes instructions via the Media decree. As for you standing up for anything in Fiji let alone stand in an election and give up a cushy job, no I havent heard or known of you. Best you crawl back under the stone in which you came from. As for new leadership instead of SDL go for it man as long as we jail the current illegal leaders and bring any new form of leadership as long as they are elected in a General Election. As for me running away to Australia I had already been taken up to the army camp three times bro. How many times have you been taken up Mr Oracle? I am sure you would have done the same as me if you were already taken up three times to the Army camp.And if you do stand in the General Election make yourself known to me. Kenneth Zinck

The Oracle said...

My sympathies, Kenny, for the abuses you received at the hands of the military goons. I am well aware of your public (and private) statements and your stand against the regime.
We all share the same sentiments and are doing our own thing in our own quite ways to target public awareness of the regime's wrong-doings. The problem, in your case, is that people can't decide whether you're a serious politician or a maverick and you've provided very little to engender serious support for yourself.
Let me say also that while I wish I had a "cushy job", it's one where I earn an honest dollar and not one where I earn a dollar off the backs of ordinary workers who pay union dues.
But, back to reality: The SDL government was the worst ever that ruled this country. It promoted, within its short stint in power, so much racial distrust that the people of Fiji were being divided by an ever widening racial gap.
The reality of the situation also is that Frank Bainimarama, as a dictator who is unaccountable to a voting public, is enforcing some changes which are necessary but which politically-aligned governments were never able to do. The problem with Frank is that he's doing things illegally and there's issues about how much he and his cronies are milking the public treasure chest.
Yes, we want some of the changes Frank has brought about, but we want it done by an ELECTED GOVERNMENT. And please - not the SDL one all over again.
Yes, we all want Frank and Co to be brought to justice - not murdered in cold blood as that will not provide the closure that we all need. It will also make us no better than the goons we despise.
And MOST OF ALL, we need someone astute enough to organise pockets of resistance which can then be coordinated into a national uprising. ONLY THEN will the people of Fiji, including myself, come out from under the "stone" as you put it. The resistance NEEDS TO BEGIN AT HOME.
Harping and "oganising" from abroad will do nothing to solve our situation.
If you genuinely have leadership qualities then you should be prepared to lead our people HERE AT HOME and not by remote control from Australia.
Roko Ului is making an attempt to do that from Tonga and, despite his efforts, he IS FAILING MISERABLY. He will of course team up with Jone Baledrokadroka and the Fiji Democracy Movement in Australia and they will shout to the four corners of the Earth about the predicament ordinary Fijians are in under Frank's rule. But - what will that achieve for those of us here at home? Sweet FA!!
So please, why don't you all just come home and start the Revolution? We've been talking with and at each other since December 2006 and we're still talking.... when's the action going to start? Some say in December and most, around the grog basin, say never.

Sa dri yani!!!!

Kenneth Zinck said...

Thanks Mr Oracle for your sympathies etc genuine or whatever. The cushy job I had was at Westpac not with the Union for your information. The outbursts and comments I make against Frank, Khaiyum Nailatikau, Ricketts, Gates, Shameems etc is not to gain a voting public or a mandate for being elected no far from it. It stems from principles that you and I hold to speak out against any injustice that come our way. I dont have a motive to gain political hand outs but that standing up against these goons who steal our taxes on a daily basis and rape democracy is the most Christian and principled thing to do in Fiji today. We must at all levels regardless where we are Fiji, Australia, or Timbuktu we are required by the radical Gospel to speak out for the voiceless and the oppressed in Fiji. I agree Mr Oracle we should all come back and lead a revolution and that will happen too and time will tell. Dont rule that out mate. The illegal regime need to be arrested and tried in the Haque NOW. Oh you mentioned that the SDL was the worst eve govt to be elected in Fiji I disagree because they won again in the GE of 2006. Its obvious that you are a minority here.However bad or worse a govt performs the ballot paper is the way to change or remove them not Frank and his bullet. Besides Franks removal of the SDL Government was not bcos they were racist as you put it but becos Frank had sinister motives to save his own skin from facing trial a week later for the murder of CRW soldiers. See Franks TV interview on the killing of the CRW soldiers. Anyway Happy Diwali to you. Sa dri tale yani! Kenneth Zinck

The Oracle said...


You were someone the Archbishop listened to. What happened when he joined Bainimarama's lot - were you cast out as a lost sheep? If the Catholic Church had not stepped in to hold Bainimarama's hand, we would probably have gotten out of all this mess a whole lot faster as Frank should have been urged by the Catholic Archbishop to do the RIGHT THING and follow the Supreme Court ruling.
As you rightly say, Frank carried out the coup to save himself .. but, likewise, there are many including the Catholic Archbishop and the handful of Muslim puppeteers who rallied behind him and gave him the strength to continue.
But that's now all a BLAME GAME and they should stand in the dock with him when the time comes.
I, for one, do not agree with the way Frank took over power and I would be among the first, if the situation availed itself, to tell Pontius Pilate to "try him". BUT, at the same time, in all our hatred for the man, we must also look at Fiji as a whole and we MUST AGREE, minority or otherwise, that some of the changes that have been introduced are for the better and that there is NO WAY IN HELL that an elected government would have dared make the changes.
Admitting this does not make me a sympathiser .. just a realist.
As for your work history, the bank came first, your job as a unionist came after Parliament. So, yes, I do know something about you (as for your statement about knowing you from a bar of soap, I have a fair inkling of both and to me, the soap might be slippery when wet, but it's something I can use to refresh myself. Unfortunately I can't say you do the same for me!!!).
As for your prediction about a revolution ... as a singer you must know that song ..."It's only words and words are all I have....". Hopefully, you and your band of merry men can "steal our hearts away" by putting your money where your mouth is.
Hopefully Jone Baledrokadroka and Roko Ului's planned meeting in November will eventuate into something real and not just hot air, because with all that Tongan feasting the hot air can be very putrid.
In the meantime, in between time, I sincerely hope you're enjoying Australia and that you find some young Sheila (or "HE la") to help you recover from your trauma. (Oh, and if it's a "HE la" be careful not to drop the soap).

Over to you Graham>>>>>>

Anonymous said...

Oracle hit the nail on the head! Kenneth just because you win an elections means nothing-there are many ways to win an election-buy votes, rig the elections -take your pick! In Fiji it was easy-just say that the Indo-Fijians were stealing the land. You never heard of that one before? Just because Oracle & I also consider myself in the minority-doesn't mean what we say is not correct! The solution for Fiji is not just elections we have already had heapes of those and where did it get us! Democracy comes into fruition when there is a change in Govt thru the elections! Not when you lose & plan coups.Democracy exists in many forms-one you get right now is in USA-where the country can become almost bankrupted due to greed and nothing can be done about it! There another in P&G-where we can buy votes? Until we grow up to know what type of democracy we really aspire to have we will continue to suffer-rich gets richer!The SDL will never make it back into power unless it can find atrue Leader to lead Fiji & come up with real people who can also lead not be just passengers!

Taukei. said...

SDL has never been without a leader - (respected one too). Currently exiled in Vanuabalavu.
Whatever you believe or suspect about K Zink will hopefully be one day tested (judged) by the people in free & open elections - should of course he ever desire to return to Viti & resume a political career?

Anonymous said...

Taukei respected at what? He didn't do a thing for Vanuabalavu-only developed his village & had mobile phone towers setup. Roads have only now got fixed-last time when the late Tui Nayua was in Govt!