#header-inner img {margin: 0 auto !important; #header-inner {text-align: Center ;} Fiji Coupfourpointfive: Archbishop says flag designs need to be re-evaluated

Thursday, June 18, 2015

Archbishop says flag designs need to be re-evaluated

by Archbishop Peter Loy Chong

The Oxford Dictionary states that a flag is a piece of cloth or similar material, typically oblong or square, attachable by one edge to a pole or rope and used as the symbol or emblem of a country. The flag is a symbol of a nation's identity, beliefs and values.

Therefore to create a new flag and ensure it truly represents a nation's identity, those charged with this task must understand the notion of a symbol. What is a symbol and how does it function?

I wish to contribute to the formulation of Fiji's new flag by providing a framework for understanding the flag as a symbol. I draw my contribution from Roger Haight's book "Dynamics of Theology".

Haight's discussion on symbol draws from two prominent Christian theologians, Karl Rahner (Catholic) and Paul Tillich (Protestant). Rahner's theology of symbols is rooted in a great doctor of the church, Thomas Aquinas, and Aristotle.

Haight argues a symbol may be simply defined as that through which something other than itself is made present and known. In some cases the symbol may be the only way through which the thing symbolised is actualised or known. A symbol makes something else present and actual. It makes known something other than itself.

In the religious context, symbols make God known and present. A symbol can be anything, an event, or person in history which mediates or makes present to human consciousness the presence of God in one way or another.

A good synonym for symbol is medium. In other words a symbol mediates the experience of God. Since a symbol is a medium its function is to point to something beyond itself or something other than itself. This is what makes a symbol a symbol, namely the ability to point to something else.

A symbol is more than a mere sign. A sign bears no internal connection to that which it signifies. A symbol on the other hand has the capability of making present that which it symbolises.

Paul Tillich goes further by stating a symbol participates in that which is symbolised. The symbol makes present what it symbolises. Since a symbol communicates and makes the divine present, it must be meaningful to the people of the particular culture.

The above understanding of the symbol can help us understand the significance of a national symbol such as the flag.

A flag symbolises a nation's identity, history, beliefs and values. The flag should communicate and make present to people what their nation stands for. The symbols in the flag point to the nation. To see the symbols is to see their national identity, beliefs and values.

Symbols will only speak to a people when it is drawn from their culture. Hence, a foreign symbol cannot speak to the local people. It must be added here that an effective symbol needs no interpretation or explanation. In other words, an effective symbol has the power to communicate what it symbolises and hence no need for explanations.

From what has been said about the nature and function of symbols we can make some concluding remarks in relation to the proposed new Fiji flag.

1. The Fiji flag should communicate Fijian identity, beliefs, values and aspirations.

2. The new Fiji flag should use effective and powerful local symbols that communicate Fijian identity, beliefs and values.

3. The symbols should be drawn from the major local ethnic and religious communities.

The 23 probable flags should be evaluated and critiqued in light of these three points. The comments we are getting in the media show the 23 probable flags fail to communicate the Fijian identity, beliefs and values.

Any Fijian who sees the Fiji flag should see something of the Fijianness in his or her heart.


Anonymous said...

It really shows that majority of the people still go with the famous current fag........God Bleeeesssssssss Fiiiiiijjjiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!

Tin Tin said...

Some officers from AG's office are currently in Kadavu supposedly on a mission to collect data that will show agreement and verification by the people of the government's intention to have one of the 23 designs adopted and also raised during the Fiji Day celebration in October. The same government team returned from Vanua Levu villages last week.
Be prepared to hear the AG announcing that he has the signatures of more than 60% of the population that have agreed on a new flag for the nation.

Anonymous said...

Josateki Daulako says....The sad thing is many people express verbally their dislike for the 23 flag choices. When it comes to signing petitions no one wants to do it. I hear that SODELPA only collected under 400 signatures. Everyone in Fiji seems to have the attitude of letting someone else do the hard work and they are not bothered. People of Fiji should be bothered and understand their rights as individuals or have we succumbed...Of course these Government Officials who made the trip to Vanualevu and Kadavu will come back with thousands of votes...Half of it was probably signed on the way there and back but they will get their signatures. There is a saying...when the going gets tough, the tough gets going and this is the moments when we need true leaders and I will keep harping about it...Not leaders who say something than seat back and expect everyone else to do the work but leader who show courage and step up and do the work and people will follow. We do not have such a leader today in Fiji. Our leaders are all wind.... Why call oneself a Chief if one cannot lead from the front. Why call oneself a representative of the people within an electorate when one cannot be the voice for the people. Mandela spent most of his living life or the better part of it in jail. That is a sacrifice of dignity for his people. Where is Fiji's Mandela.

Anonymous said...

As far as I am concerned, this flag issue is not going to put food on the table. There are certainly more pressing issues than this piece of rag. Most people are sick and tired of this garbage that a change in flag design could do miracles...read my lips..IT WON'T. All it does is leave behind a legacy of the worst history in Fijian Politics. A mad man who lacks wisdom. A lawyer who has lost his nuts and a group of gullible suckers. Likewise on the other side of the aisle, a group of jealous traditionalists and racists who think that the world has not moved one inch. To me, Fijian politics is fucked. All we have are "political soldiers" who think they can save the world

KUA NI RERE said...

I would like to thank C4.5 and Archibishop Loy Chong for this wonderful description of what a "Flag " means.The description of Symbolisms are fantastic. I'm not Catholic but even God deals with us in Symbolisms.
I've never heard of pre-Christian history of Fijians having a Flag. Rt Cakobau's flag is obviously SYMBOLS from the Bible ( Piegon with olive branch)
Although we have Fijian words like Kuila and Drotini. I dont know whether Kuila is a derivation from another language. It sounds like it. Drotini sounds more Fijian.
I'm happy to be corrected.

I would suggest all young people in Fiji read the Archibishops definition of Symbolism. May be they should Facebook it to all their friends.

BECAUSE ON THE 10TH OF OCTOBER YOU WILL SEE A FLAG THAT MEANS NOTHING TO US ...but probably means something to the 2 Conniving, Lying, Thieving, DUMB arseholes Bainimarama and Kaiyum.

Probably the only symbols fit for their flag would be 2 black arses pointing at us. Now those SYMBOLS would mean a lot to Fiji and its citizens.

Anonymous said...

More like Bati ni Tanoa soldiers...rogo vinaka na vakamacala io kena caka2 taki...me dua tale cakava....woilei...sa sivia na vosa but that is why we need true leaders to step up and lead from the front.

Anonymous said...

The current flag, is a give away...its a class 6-7 student with a stencil and colour ready to splash paint of a meaningless, stupid and whitewash symbols. This goes to show the shallow mentality of those behind it, they want a new flat, kick everybody's opinion out of the door and let their will be done fullstop!..make it worse everybody keeping silent...with the exception of the few like Archbishop Loy.

Anonymous said...

@JD the problem is no one trusts chiefs any more. They are look downed upon there's no longer any respect especially amongst the young ones.They say we are a republic and the GCC is dismantled we dont need a monarchy/chiefly rank style structure and advising the government.They say the people should advise governments not lazy careless Aristotle snobbish fat cats who have destroyed the country.Chiefs are viewed as worthless traitors to the country these days.In fact its even tougher to be a chief under this government then any other.

Anonymous said...

It is a very inspiring article on symbolism and it reveals the true meaning of it.
I am not against the notion of a new flag but how shallow are the perceptions and views of the ones that are regarded.
If our flag imperatively has to change then lets put more work to it and raise the bar above the one that is flying high now.

Anonymous said...

Bai time to smarten up this Archibishop Tong,fong,kong or whatever?
He needs to know that he can't jump into the political arena before
taking off your fathers' frock? Hey, if you opposed this new flag then just wait and vote off the Government at the next election?What
people should be worried about is JOBS & GOOD WAGES?

Anonymous said...

I believe that people didn't want to sign the petition against the flag for coupla reasons:
1. For fear of being targeted by this regime
2. The perception that their signatures do not carry weight anymore.
3. The perception that the flag had been finalized and ready to be hoisted.
4.The loss of trust towards the ruling party.
5. The loss of trust on our judiciary

And to say that we do not have leaders to lead from the front is basically unfair when every Fijian today is afraid of confronting a regime that threat its own people with armor, violence , butchery and thievery.Our fight against this regime is making waves in the planet today through our social network, more than the gathered signatures. Let them do what they are doing because it's their season.
Tomasi used to write" There's a season to everything"
The time for justice is forthcoming The dogs day isn't here yet and I'm waiting for that day.

Anonymous said...

6 28. The archbishop is right.
He has the right to freedom of expression both as a citizen and his status in our society and he is exercising them.
Yeah, jobs and good wages you're asking are available at the Never land. This regime and it's idiot leaders are doing a great job of stealing and devouring the wealth of its people. Thats why its difficult to find a job. Their policies are failing.

Anonymous said...

Josateki Daulako says to Anon 1:42am...I think your sentiments about our Chiefs is rather harse...Our traditional system is still in place and maintained strongly by our Fijian communities and every Fijian today knows that to do away with it is to do away with our history, our cultures and customs and we are proud to maintain this. The concept of Capitalism has however driven people to be more individualistic rather than communal, communal being the manner in which villages operate with its systems, each knowing their role within their respective village to enable the cooperation of all.

Like in any society whether it be a workplace, school, university or Government there are always leaders and within every Fijian village, the leaders are the Chiefs who have inherited the right from ancestors and acknowledged within every village.

Your idealism perhaps is viewed mainly by city dwellers because of the demands and expectations of a Capitalistic Society.

To say Chiefs are today disrespected is perhaps your views but we Fijians understand our place and structure and one respects the other so as to maintain those boundaries and structures so I disagree with you....The only thing I can say about the disrespect of the Chiefs is that Frank has caused this to happen with his political propaganda leading people to believe that the Chiefs were the influencing factors behind the previous 2000 and 1987 coup. Though some Chiefs may have played a part in them, their decision is individual. The role of the Chiefs in Government had been defined in Cessation, Independence of Fiji and the 1997 Constitution and this 1997 Constitution has been subrogated by Frank, who despite being a Fijian, has uttered and shown total disrespect to his own people and his Chiefs. You will see when Frank attended the funeral of the late Ratu Ravoka, Frank knew his place and that is as a PM (if subject of Kiuva he would not have sat where he sat) and he sat where he was expected to seat, behind his Chiefs from Bau, Burebasaga and other. His showing respect reveals that Frank understands these protocols but his vengeance of the 2000 events, has also caused him to issue political propaganda against these Chiefs from 2006.

Chiefs are representation of their individual villages and from there up to provinces. They have been recognised since cessation to independence as the voice of their people. Many of the people who grew up in villages have very limited education or preferred not to voice their opinions but that does not mean they do not have a voice. People are still individuals and our capitalist society is moving people towards these notions.

Whether a Chief is capable of participating in politics is an individual choice and should not be construed as one which the Chief may think or feel is his sole right. Democracy is guided by these rules. If you feel you have the capability so go for it but who are we to say who and why they should not stand in government. It is their individual right as a citizen to do so.

In making such a statement, many of us young educated Fijians cringe because we realise today, with education and the western influences and other races upon our country, we are rapidly losing our own identify as Fijians. Many of our customs and traditions have been replaced or changed and one may argue that everything evolves. Like Indians wish to maintain their cultural identify and the same with Indians and other races, we also wish to see the preservation of our Fijian identify because it is who we are and whether you like it or not, Chiefs make up the social fabric of our communal system.

Anonymous said...

Josateki Daulako says to Anon 9:59am...agree totally with you hence I say that we lack leaders with courage today. Leaders who are willing to face the regime. History has proven in every country facing what we are, in every warfare, in every political battle, when a leader leads from the front and confronts what people fear, the people will have the courage to follow the leader. We have lacked one since Frank committed the coup in 2006 hence, he was allowed to maintain dictatorial rule for 8 years and his subsequent win of the 2006 election. Look at the manner in which Chaudary confronted the coup perpetrators of 2000. He gained tremendous respect for his courage but my opinion is that he took the matter personal, just as Frank takes his personal and that had led to Chaudary's perhaps demise. These matters are not personal matters because it is for the people. Where are Fiji's Mandela and Ghandi.

Kutchi said...

The most regrettable part of our way forward is that the 2 supposed leaders are just worried about how to ensure that they will have a safe exit and future, after milking as much as they can from national coffers.
They seem to be quickly forgetting that the power , glory and wealth they currently enjoy all started from the coup of 2006.
"Those who live by the sword, will die by the sword" Saddam Hssein was hiding in a drain. Ghadaffi tried to disguise himself as a woman when he was caught.
Bai and Khai will be sodomised, castrated and hung at Nakobalevu mast before they are dismembered and fed to the qitawa at Nubukalou creek.

Anonymous said...

Its called power trip...I don't think Frank envisioned the power in his hands until it happened and if you have a dumb idiot taking power...powder keg ready to explode....Has anyone looked up Khaiyum's previous conviction.

Anonymous said...

Yes, if Kaiyum had a conviction then how come he was allowed to stand in the last election. The government's own rule was to exclude anyone with past criminal conviction.

Anonymous said...

If conviction is found it may bring him down...Im sure there are police officers who have this information and document

Anonymous said...

An oversight I guess my friend. ...it's called. ...power grip

Anonymous said...

....power grip

Anonymous said...

What conviction? what crime did he commit? Of course treason will be part of his criminal record in future . In the meantime I'll run a background check and hope something pops up in the system . I will update you later .

Anonymous said...

please allow me to answer a question about the whereabouts of Fiji's Mandela and Ghandi's,actually they are the ones supporting the FFP Govt, the Mandealer and Ghandus are on the other side of the parliament.

Anonymous said...

stop worrying about previous convictions,several members of the Opposition might be forced to leave parliament also.

Anonymous said...

Josateki Daulako quotes...every moment has its time. For every beginning there will always be an end. For now it may be yours but tommorow it will change hands. Cherish not what is indefinite. Thrive not in its temptation. Heed the crying hearts for those tears will confront and douse the fires of oppresion.

Anonymous said...

Kaiyum has a criminal record.
He was caught with a bomb on an aeroplane in Nadi in 1987.
The Opposition should apply the law and get this criminal thrown out of the government.

Anonymous said...

Im sure there is an honest police officer who can produce Khaiyum's previous conviction.

Anonymous said...

Interesting that the police have threatened people not to make comments about the 23 flag designs and poofters like Vili disappeared immediately...Must be up the hills of Ba..Even other FF supporters commenting on this site are not saying anything about the designs....

Anonymous said...

the problem of poor taste and poor understanding of symbolism is all what we are talking about here.
lack of wisdom from the government to keep pushing in the wrong direction.

Notice how the newspapers are not publishing any article about the issue anymore (they pass the risk to the people in the letters to the editor!)
How come the newspapers don't ask the government why they don't follow their own rules? they were supposed to select a flag amongst all proposals and then submit them to the parliament. There was supposed to be A WINNER who would raise the new flag on Fiji Day with his/her name written on a plaque... what happened to all that?!?!?

While I disagree with the authoritarian "elected regime", I can only ask that they follow at least their own rules. I am not asking for an extension of the competition as the rules were clear from the beginning. 2 months is enough and if you didn't submit anything, well that's it for you. I ask for the designs submitted to be published so that we can discuss about the quality of the selection. I don't think it is representative of the people's submissions!

Anonymous said...

@8:17 PM
Absolutely. The problem here is all about NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES.
We know that many great designs would have been ruled out, and we know the 23 designs were in fact produced by Khaiyum (they look too unprofessional to be the produce of a vexillologist) or such person in the government. Look at that sun with... 11 points! 11! ELEVEN!!! Eleven for what?

There is only one way for us to judge of the integrity of the government and the flag committee: get all the proposals published.
No other way. As for SODELPA, thank you very much for not doing your job of observing the selection process by not having anyone on the committee. That was really nice of you. You might disagree with the change, but that doesn't mean you have to pull out of your responsabilities... So now you do what? you take your $$$ from the government and you will... walk in October! You guys are so smart.

Anonymous said...

Science More: Environment Water Drought California
21 of the world’s 37 biggest sources of drinking water are on the verge of disappearing


JUN. 18, 2015, 2:08 PM
The world is running out of water.

New NASA satellite data shows that a majority of the world's largest underground aquifers — the predominant source of our drinking water — are being depleted faster than they can be refilled.

From its recent 2003 to 2013 study, NASA concluded that 21 of the 37 largest aquifers (underground reservoirs that store groundwater from rain and snow) are running out too fast to be replenished.

An additional 13 are declining at a rate that puts them in a category NASA calls the "most troubled."

This is extremely troubling considering that we draw about a one-third of the world's water from aquifers.

“The situation is quite critical,” Jay Famiglietti, senior water scientist at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California and principal investigator of the University of California Irvine-led studies, told the Washington Post.

NASA gathered its data using special satellites called Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment satellites, which took precise measurements of the world’s groundwater aquifers. Since the bigger, heavier water sources exerted a stronger gravitational pull on the satellite, they could use this data to spot the largest sources of water.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nasa-data-shows-the-world-is-running-out-of-water-2015-6#ixzz3dXdzgaNM

Anonymous said...

"3. The symbols should be drawn from the major local ethnic and religious communities"

Here there might be a problem if the designer is not well versed in vexillology.

The symbols have to be very abstract. For example, if you want to refer to the main ethnic groups (say Fijians and Indians) then you can have 2 large rectangles like on the Nigerian flag for example, but it would be a mistake to have something more "clear" (pictogram) As for religious communities (and here I suspect the archbishop might be in conflict of interets... but that's allright in Fiji...) the challenge is very difficult. You may do so if you can extract from a religious symbol something more abstract that can be shared by everybody, but that is such a difficult thing to do (and very unlikely) that it would be better to stick to something simple.

A flag has to be simple and meaningful. The 23 flags that don't have a pictogram are simple. The problem is all about the very symbolism. The crazy obsession about the number 7 (stupid) , the BLUE stars (!) , the land of the "first sun" (Japan already has that one!) and the triangle "looking forward" has been used by so many other countries that we can hardly call it original.

the level of symbolism is these flags is very very very childish. While a primary school child should be able to drae the flag, that doesn't mean the flag should be designed by a primary school child too!!!


Anonymous said...

Don't worry about our drinking water. If the ocean runs dry then you worry.
California is getting ready to desalinate the Pacific Coast in case the long drought continues.

Anonymous said...

8.25 am. Anon
That's exactly what's happening around the world. Spring water today is big business. In the US, nearly all households are not drinking tap water but either from an underground well or from bottled water sold in stores. At home its our own world renowned Fiji Water.
In California alone, being the world's supplier of green produce, much of its water consumption comes from farms and that's why Gov Brown is pleading with Californians to limit water usage. Yard sprinkling is regulated. Home car wash is prohibited.
If big businesses continue to thrive on our natural fresh underground water , what will happen in the next 50 years.

Anonymous said...

My brother, you go home and drink a glass of water, maybe than you shall realise that the topic of conversation is FLAG here, vinaka.

Semisi said...

Our beloved country won't be the same until this current administration leave the office. they can build, develop and establish many institution to provide for the well being of its citizen. It will come to nothing, as it was established on a false foundation. What was happened in Fiji for the last few years with continue manipulate, cunning and using their position to manufacture the coups culture, using RACISM and other reason as a card to blind the people's mind and heart.

Our country won't be different from other countries that had been taken by force which so far none has been last long, regardless their powerful military. When the people are becoming hard to find air to breath, they will do anything to find a way.

Mark my words that history will repeat itself here in Fiji, when the might of the people began to move..........

Anonymous said...

The new flag had been evaluated, dissected, scrutinized, critique, praised, ridiculed, sodomised, defecated, burnt and so forth in this blog. Our proposals, complaints and recommendations had been written and presented in here yet will these change the stance of Bhai Khai on the new flag. . Big Doubt!
That's why I'm turning away to welcome a diff topic of discussion. Sa madra mai na kuila nei Kulina Kaiyum kei kakuli Vore.

Anonymous said...

@4:23 PM
Your are most probably right, but... if this is the attitude we want to have in Fiji (getting "tired" after 2 weeks) then we will end up living forever in the land of carelessness. That explain why the coup culture can go on and on and on... nobody is willing to wake up.

Taki mada!

Anonymous said...

In today's Fiji Times Proff Wadan Narsey has torn to pieces the idiotic Proff Satendra None-Done's piece on the Magna Carta.

Anonymous said...

Is AG mad or he just born like that? Only need a cat in the new design....but a talented cat.....so we have a new copycat flag

Anonymous said...

Noka tale na sosoko ni bilo ya...vakawai mada.
I seem to agree with your sentiment. ..but I would only hope that the flag committee is strong and bold enough to convince Vore and Khai to go back to the initial design by each single participant and let the general public vote for the best and meaningful one. The committee's responsibility in this case is similar to a polling clerk...administering proper counting and recording.That is being transparent and clear honesty as they're trying to model.
If this is not done then our culture of coup lives on. It is a daily phenomena. Vore and Khai are taking everyone by force every single day they are in office.
....taki tale..vakasisinai

Anonymous said...

Very true, Archbishop for your leadership to define the problem here. Those who do not know the "heart" only know imposition and dictatorship which is what Bainimarama's Fiji flag is all about. He is a bully along with his puppeteer.

Anonymous said...

Why are we being force to choose among the shortlisted flags, in the first we did not want to change it anyway.

Anonymous said...

AG Wasn't born mad, he just grew greedy, when he got into power with Bainimarama government, he was caught in the greed and power, he has started thinking of himself as the most powerful person in Fiji, which is indeed true, he knows he is nothing without Bainimarama and Bainimarama know he is brainless so he needs khaiyums brain, but these two idiots wont last long,they will fall in the black hole they have dug for Fiji. Being bully wasn't necessary for tham but they have gotten accustomed to bullying, they don't know they are awakening the power of people by continuing to be morons.

Anonymous said...

The following quote is from Activist Post on climate change as a ruse to create the New World Order:

“Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s top business advisor on Friday claimed climate change was a ruse encouraged by the United Nations to create a new authoritarian world order under its control.

“Maurice Newman, chairman of the Prime Minister’s Business Advisory Council, said the real agenda was “concentrated political authority. Global warming is the hook”.
“In a column for The Australian newspaper to coincide with a visit by UN climate chief Christiana Figueres, he added that the world had been “subjected to extravagance from climate catastrophists for close to 50 years”.

“It’s a well-kept secret, but 95 percent of the climate models we are told prove the link between human CO2 emissions and catastrophic global warming have been found, after nearly two decades of temperature stasis, to be in error,” he said, without providing evidence.

“Newman, a former chairman of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, is a known climate change sceptic but he went further by accusing the UN of being involved in a SCAM.

“Gee. A SCAM that has been “encouraged by the United Nations” to bring about “concentrated political authority” that will help to create “a new authoritarian world order under its control.” You don’t say.”

A special commission has been set up to examine how much the official temperature data has been compromised. Well, good luck with that, and we hope to see some prosecutions of corrupt scientists.

Geoengineering and CERN.
The chemtrail air fleet.
How California’s government is responding to the drought. Big changes are in the works. More reporting from TABU. We are beginning to see the various tentacles of the octopus come together to form the socialist prison state. California is a key target, and we expect the Jade Helm exercises to take down resistance in the most conservative states.

Anonymous said...

aND not so - its a myth - that if the world population farted all at once we are emitting lethal gas that will cause global warming!

How easily do we all get sucked or brainwashed about how humans are destroying the world through CO2 emissions.

And the pope says in his encyclical that we should worship mother earth...let mother earth forgive us. Perhaps this is the result of chemtrail spraying that is affecting human intelligence...cause seems like we are lacking or easily duped by world government authorisation.

What's in a flag again???

Semisi said...

My friends, we can talk about anything regarding the illegal current administration and the way they conduct themselves in running the country. From day one after they took over in 2006 up to now, what have it change? Shall we say that the new parliament came about, because the new system was been carefully established to elect a democratic form of government to take care of it citizen????

What a load of rubbish. There are nothing change in term of governing our people. They still run the country exactly the same with what happened from day one since they take over.

So, what will we do to help bring back the freedom to our land? There are many ways, but I strongly believed that if everyone of us that are willing to sacrifice their time and write down a clear message of condemnation in the strongest word that you can, perhaps that will give our people a message that this current leaders are just using us for their own benefit.

They government leaders are laughing at us, when they put up something for discussing like the choosing of the flag. because they already know the answer before they ask for our commend.

Anonymous said...

Agree 100% for what Wadan wrote. Though I didn't disagree totally with Herr and Nandan on the Magna carter their articles are seen to support the 2013 constitution through selective clauses while leaving out clauses against it. This is devious and fraudulent to a student of history.

Anonymous said...

Then what design do you want on our flag?
Looks like you don't want any at all.
The only design that I think of that best suit your taste and not childish is a white flag carrying a picture of two asses with their rears facing out. That carries a lot of meaning.
White means it is crystal clear that Fiji is controlled and run by 2 asses.
The 2 asses are making an ass of it's people.
People are united by 2 asses. The 2 asses are real arseholes.
Good luck!

Anonymous said...

At last, a beginning of discussion with Mr. Bainimarama?

THE public's reaction to the 23 new flag designs has not been entirely positive, Prime Minister Voreqe Bainimarama has confirmed.

And the Prime Minister has welcomed public debate on the new flag designs.

"I welcome this debate about the designs, the criticism of designs, as well as the positive responses that have come in," Mr Bainimarama said while opening the Raiwai Multi Purpose Sporting Court yesterday.

"As you all know, we have a range of designs that people are now being asked to comment on.

"And I know that the public reaction to the 23 designs that have been put out hasn't been entirely positive; we also know that many Fijians do not object to the flag to being changed but want a design they like," Mr Bainimarama said.

He said a lot of Fijians were now, only after the designs had been put out, getting engaged and suggesting new ideas.

"In our vakamalua attitude to most things, it sometimes takes us Fijians a while to get involved, but now that is happening. And that is good," he said.

He said none of the current designs were carved in stone and if necessary, they would review the current process to get the right result.

Mr Bainimarama has urged every Fijian of every age and background to give his/her opinion on the current designs, suggest new designs and join the crusade to find a national symbol that everyone could identify with.

"A design that speaks to the experience of being a Fijian now and in the future, not the experience of our colonial past. A great flag for a great country," he said.


Anonymous said...

Since I agree that Fiji needs to mature and reach full adulthood, I can only support the idea of a change of flag.
But I am asking for a real OPEN and DEMOCRATIC process, which means that the best ORIGINAL designs shall be published independently of the Flag Committee, so that the PEOPLE can guide the committee with their opinions and advice. I suppose that 200 flags would be enough, maybe 100. But we need to have a VARIETY of designs without interference from the top. That means SODELPA should grow up and send some observers at least. I would respect their choicd of not picking a new flag, but at least go and OBSERVE what is happening!

Come on guys, we are now living in 2015 on WEB 2.0 where it is easy to publish all designs with a description of the symbolism of each of them (as most of the designs are submitted by email, this is just a copy/paste job!) and a better interface than the one on newfijiflag.com where we have to go through all the list one by one instead of having a nice gallery of flags (we could click on a flag to get to a proper description of its symbolism)

Come on FF and Flag Committee, don't mess a great opportunity to give Fiji a nice symbol!!!

Anonymous said...

Bainimarama is insistent on our colonial past being completely eliminated from our flag symbols. Perhaps he should remember that there was more freedom of expression and association during those 97 years than we are experiencing currently in this purportedly democratic dictatorship.

The world regarded Fiji as "the way the world should be" during those years and immediately after, but the coups have now changed Fiji to "a troubled land in paradise".

The colonial past cannot be changed. And if we carry on and remain in this current path of coups, limiting freedom, disenfranchising the native Fijian rights and usurping their lands, government controlling the courts, depriving the citizens from drafting their constitution, making election laws and changing them during elections and etc...etc.., we are looking at a dismal future where the colonial past will always be in our fond memories.

Those were the days when our soldiers who answered the call to fight against tyranny and oppression not because of how much they were going to be paid but because they held freedom dear in their hearts and where the slogan, "For your tomorrows..., we sacrifice our todays..." were proven to be so true and so inspiring.

Sa dri yani...

Anonymous said...

@5:27 PM Humans love war. They don't need a pay check... look at history! It is pathetic that so many people love the idea to die under a flag when we want to live under it. Men are prehistoric.

Fiji's flag is really outdated and I believe that only a colonized mind can really love the idea of having an Union Jack PLUS a lion PLUS the St-George Cross MINUS the Fijian warriors and the motto on his flag... At least NZ, Australia and Tuvalu thought the Union Jack was enough...but Fiji need all the symbols of colonialism.

The problem here is all about good taste anyway. A good flag should not have another country's flag on it and no coats of arms. let's start from there. If a link with UK is to be kept, it has to be using a smart symbolism. And the 23 flags proposed have poor symbolism, poor choice of colors and many are too complex to draw.

Anonymous said...

June 17, 2015


The war of words between America and Russia is escalating. So, too, is the movement of implements of war — from U.S. fighter jets to Russian nuclear weapons.

So is an actual war imminent?

No one in Russia, NATO or the United States has gone that far yet. Still, the rhetoric and actions from both sides have definitely ratcheted up in recent days, raising concerns of a new arms race — if not worse — amid tensions both sides blame on each other.

The major players all claim their movements are defensive and necessary responses to their foe’s provocation. None has talked of an invasion. Still, that’s not what some experts are worried about. They say a bigger fear is what things can happen, accidentally, when you have increasingly powerful military forces lined up so close to each other…

Anonymous said...

@7:37 stop spaming this forum! we're here to talk about the FLAG.

Anonymous said...

Yes and I thank C45 for being our voice to the world. It's crystal clear that he is referring to feedbacks from c45 .
Vinaka vakalevu c45. You...rock!

Anonymous said...

I think that we all share one thing in common : we love Fiji (with a few exceptions like those racists writing crap here or those who have their private agendas)

Certainly Fiji is a great country and deserves a great flag, no one can deny that. And anyone with half of a brain would understand why the flag has to be changed : we are not teenagers anymore, but ADULTS. Sad to see Pita Waqavonovono... grow up man!!!

I think one of the "flaws" from the government side has been to impose a theme for the flag (new Fiji, Fiji forward, etc.) The simple fact that we change the flag is in ITSELF a reference to a new Fiji... that's probably enough! So there is no need to reuse the triangle stuff (or the weird blue stars) to show that "forward" concept. There are plenty other ways to design a flag without pointing too much to "change". It's been done by many other countries like Guyana and has become somewhat too common and dull.

For many of us, obviously, we refuse to discard our past (the Fiji we love is the product of our history after all!!!) and we should not suggest on our flag that we turn our back on everything (of course we turn our back on a few things, but it's not true that ALL of our history was wrong... and even in our mistakes, we did much better than most, if not all, other nations... even in our failures we are a bit more of the way the world should be than countries in the Middle East, Africa, Asia or Europe...)

Probably that is where the problem is. Having a theme might be "ok", but it should not be restrictive as it limits the acceptable designs a lot! All our neighbours became independent and turned a page on "something" at some point, but... did they all end up with symbols about "change"? No. There is a diversity of flags, from PNG to Federated States of Micronesia, Samoa, Solomon Islands, Kiribati and Nauru for example. Maybe we should take our inspiration in our region so that our flag fits in the big picture of Oceania...

There is also one VERY IMPORTANT thing to consider from the government point of view : the Opposition might be childish, but that doesn't mean all SODELPA people are... and if you want to win the HEARTS of a lot of people, which is VERY IMPORTANT here, then you need to show some consideration for those who want to keep a connection with the major Christian heritage (that doesn't mean having a cross, but we could have a color like white to symbolize the peace that came with missionaries and the British administration... or Cakobau dove in a very stylized fashion instead of turtles, etc... ) If we give more than one meaning to a color, then it can also please everybody. What I mean here is that we should not RULE OUT symbols referring to our religions or ethnic groups, as the archbishop said.

These 23 flags have been selected because of their lack of connection with the past. We may need to review that idea now... or simply give up the idea of showing "time" on our flag and focus on something else like our neighbours did on their flags...

I suppose showing respect for our ancestors might be a better idea actually than turning our back on them. Somehow we want to acknowledge both the past and the future... a lesson of humility for all of us, we need to look both ways!

If that theme of "looking forward only" was to be reconsidered, then I guess there might be at least 100 other good flags in the list tomorrow and we would be pleased to have a look at them...

Anonymous said...

There is of course the problem of good taste too... for example, light yellow and light blue are a bit hard to distinguish (take that tiny yellow sun on a blue field... nice concept, similar to Palau, but much less visible at a distance... could be bigger, maybe white on a slightly darker shade of blue and it would already be more visible) The FSM have 4 small white stars on the same blue field and they are more visible I think... and certainly more beautiful than yellow like on Tuvalu's flag... "good taste" might be by far the most subjective thing, but I believe that the real failure of those 23 flags is mostly in their symbolism... The artist didn't even bothered to count the number of sun rays in one case where it could have been 14 instead of 11...Those flags seem to have been drawn quickly... very quickly!

Let's open the range of acceptable flags (it doesn't have to be 1000, but if we have 50 VERY DIFFERENT CONCEPTS that would be perfect) We don't want 5 versions of the same flag : if there is a need to produce a flag in so many versions, it's because the symbolism failed... why a boat in the middle and then on the left on the next flag? If you can switch the colors or position of symbols (or even the symbols themselves...) then probably you need to think more about your flag...

Anonymous said...

@5:27 PM
"Bainimarama is insistent on our colonial past being completely eliminated from our flag symbols."

Very true, and that is where the problem lies. It's not that much removing the Union Jack the problem for a lot of us, but removing its "spirit" from the flag, like if all that was British was wrong... That's unacceptable! If you want to please those opposed to the change, you need to take their feelings into account...

A good symbolism would respect the British heritage and would also respect the history of Fiji (and I am not only thinking about WW2!!!!) The good news for Bainimarama is that you don't need an Union Jack of a lion or a cross to do that. You can do it in some other ways, in more subtle ways I shall say. We Fijians have a deep sense of our history and the best way to have a consensus around the new flag is to open some doors to those who think differently.

Anonymous said...

One rule to design a good flag is to ask yourself one question : could that flag also represent some other nation?

If the answer is "yes", then maybe the symbolism is not so good.
Take Palau for example. Yellow circle on blue background. That could be any country in the Pacific...


take Nauru : it is symbolized by a white 12-pointed star. Each point represents one of the 12 indigenous tribes on the island. That could not apply to Tonga. So Nauru's flag is better than Palau as far as symbolism is concerned.

Take Kiribati : The 17 rays of the sun represent the 16 Gilbert Islands and Banaba (former Ocean Island). It couldn't be Fiji!

If we look at many of those 23 flags, we can see that they fail in representing Fiji in a way that is really...FIJIAN! Most of those 23 flags could be used by any other country in the tropics...The 17 rays of the sun represent the 16 Gilbert Islands and Banaba (former Ocean Island).

Anonymous said...

Leave the Fijian Flag symbols as they are but remove the Lion and
replace it with a Whale? Whale is an ancient Fijian symbol which
we needs to protect.

Anonymous said...

@11:11 No coats of arms on a flag. A flag is NOT coats of arms. Coats or arms is like the signature of a country. It is a complex symbol because no one should be able to draw it easily, like a signature.
A flag has to be visible from the distance. Coats of arms are intended for official documents and be printed on pieces of paper mainly.
A flag is a flag, and coats of arms are coats of arms. How come nobody gets it our country?!?!?

As for the Union Jack, you may as well fly it alongside the Fiji flag if you like, but a flag of an independant nation doesn't have the flag of another independant country on it. What would you do if UK changes its own flag?

The bizarre thing in Fiji is that we haven't got a flag. The only Fijian thing is the blue field...

Anonymous said...

@11:11 By the way, we don't use symbols like whales for the sake of using them. They must mean something in the context of the flag. You might as well say a tabua...well...a tabua is a powerful symbol in the Fijian tradition, it is a kind of "currency" but with a noble component to it. But it is irrelevant on a FLAG. And a flag should not have pictograms, unless they are very very very simple (one polygon only)

Take 5 minutes to have a look at all national flags, just google "list of all national flags" and try to see what is the NORM and not the exception. The shape of Nepal's flag is an exception = NOT GOOD. The text on Saudi Arabia's flag is an exception = NOT GOOD, the complex dragon on Bhutan's flag is an exception = NOT GOOD, the 50 stars on American Flag is an exception = NOT GOOD.

A good flag is a flag that is not exceptional because of some distinct feature (trying to be distinct for the sake of being distinct is NOT GOOD) We need to have a good symbolism and colors that match together. It's that simple.

White and blue like Micronesia is beautiful. Yellow and blue like Palau is so so...

Anonymous said...

Today in the Times we have this letter:

Flag scenario HAS Simon Hazelman (FT 20/6) heard the saying 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'? If he acquaints himself with what the idiom means, he would have a better understanding on why so many of his compatriots do not favour a change of the current Fiji flag.

RAJEND NAIDU Sydney, Australia

I thought Rajend would have the wisdom to understand what is problematic with the flag... what if it was an American flag instead of a British Union Jack? After all America saved the Pacific Islands during WW2.

Rajend should do some research on flag design. A lot of people in Fiji should do the same thing.

Good bye bananas!

Anonymous said...

Simon Hazelman went from supporting the change to opposing it after he saw the 23 proposed designs. Then he chosed to support flag #50...out of good faith I suppose.

An old saying says only fools don't change their mind... I can follow his way of thinking... but I rather think it would be better to try harder to find a consensus by having a more honest and open competition. So far, the Flag Committee is very low profile. ..

This is the way I think we should go about it:

1) The Flag Committee should "get rid" of all ridiculous flags (sorry to say that to those who tried hard to design a new flag...) By ridiculous I mean most of the flags we saw in the media (the "Bula Fiji" one with coats of arms and map of Fiji is a good example...) We need flags that JUST MEET the criterions of a "good flag" : no text, simple, no pictograms, etc... We might end up with only 300 flags out of 2000, judging from what we have seen so far... 300 flags can be easily printed in a newspaper (5 pages with 60 flags) and a short explanation of the symbolism for each flag. Compare that to the long lists of signatures during the elections... it's NOTHING!!! NO EDITING from the Committee allowed. The Flag Committee is there to chose a list of flags, they are not there to actually design the new flag!!! Otherwise, what's the point of the whole competition?!?!

2) The public can give their opinion about those new flags and then the Committee can bring down the list to some 20 flags. That list should be given to parliament. No interference from politicians whatsoever.

3) Parliament vote.

If those 3 steps are followed, we share the decision between the people (designers), the Committee (preselection), the people again (everybody, not only designers) and then the elected MPs. That would be FAIR.

Right now, we all feel like the whole democratic process was everything but democratic. The general perception of the public matters in a democracy!

Anonymous said...

Step 3 could follow a poll to see if a majority of Fijians prefer the new flag to the old one... so that MPs can vote according to what they think is right. I ask for a FREE and SECRET vote.

The very fact that ALL countries using the Union Jack on their national flag have either ...
- removed it permanently in the past (Canada)
- removed it not permanently (Tuvalu)
- thought seriously about removing it (Australia)
- undertaken a competition to change it (New Zealand)

SHOW that something is wrong. If we ask the people to chose between a new flag and the old flag in a poll and we get something like 50-50, it means the old flag is actually quite bad because it has the advantage of "history". A really good flag should get 80% plus support after 45 years...

My take is that the old flag should get 60%-70% plus support in a poll over many weeks (cheaper than a referendum) in order to remain. Otherwise, the new flag will win.

What seems obvious is that we need that new flag before having a final poll... and I don't think that any of those 23 flags would win... and mind you we have a very colonial flag!!! Come on guys, a little bit of imagination!!!!

Anonymous said...

I just googled "world flags ranking" and obviously the rest of the world never puts our flag in the top... :( Some sites puts our flag at the bottom and most never in the top 50...

It's not just about what WE think about our flag, but what the rest of the world thinks too...

If everybody overseas says that our Fiji Airways design is the best (we won many awards) then it means we did a good job. Air Pacific had the Gay Pride logo on it and nobody bothered to change it... what does it say about us?

We need the same change about our new flag, but we don't want a commercial logo!!! It has to be different. A flag is a flag!

If you like pink and brown like some bus companies in Fiji but everbody thinks it's really ugly to the extend they take pictures and put them online to make fun of the companies, well.. maybe it means something...

I never liked our flag since I was a child. It just looks weird... and it seems that it is what most people think OUTSIDE of Fiji at least!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the update. It's fact that every single human today must educate him/herself of the dangers lurking ahead in terms of what's going on in the world.
The US/Russia relation is worsening day by day with Russia on the verge of using its nuclear to curb threats of continued sanctions from the West headed by the US. While Putin is outsmarting everyone knowing that he has the most sophisticated military arsenal on planet Obama is weakening its own through massive military budget cuts.
Today the US is more focused on building defensive devices/shields for protection from Russia ' s threat.
WW3 is not a nuclear war but a war of indignation where electric and electronic tech will be the tool of surprise. The country with the biggest and enormous EMP on planet is Russia.
While the Flag issue rages on one must not lose sight of the fact that we in Fiji, a speck in the map is part of the global network. What happens on the other side of planet will be felt here.
Therefore lets utilize every opportunity the world of information has offered us and create an awareness on what's going on within and around us.

Anonymous said...


Fiji flag not sooo good, but not the worst either. Around 3 "dislikes" for every "likes"... a little bit lower than average.
Interesting to see that not a single flag ends up with a majority of "likes" ... sounds like it will be difficult to find a consensus anyway!

Anonymous said...

@3:23PM irrelevant. vinaka

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous 3:23PM
You are right.
The American government is evil.
They along with the Israelis destroyed the Twin Towers or WTC. Everybody knows that.
And we know they shot down the Malaysian Airlines over Ukraine.
Funny how they get their lackies like Australia to do the propaganda for them.
The day after Malaysian Airlines was shot down, Tony Abbot and Julia Bishop were jumping up and down and blaming the Russians.
Wow! Thats a big call.
Thats even before any evidence was gathered. What a bunch of fuckwits.
I thought Australia's justice system says You are innocent until proven guilty....but Australia's leadership straightaway on the next day on TV blamed the Russians.
I dont know how Australia's leaders can be so idiotic.
The only other possible reason for their behaviour is that America must have called them and told them to blame Russia.
How childish.
We the people are not easily fooled. Hehehehe.
Remember the evil American governmentis also advising Bainimarama. They got people on the ground in Fiji.
Changing the flag is very important part of neutralising a population's sense of pride.

Anonymous said...

Well said @3.23pm!!!

And NO, @3.27pm, it is definitely not irrelevant! You are just being ignorant to what is happening with world powers who are on the verge of eliminating each other with war arsenals and most probably nuclear! The USA and its impending economic crisis is just around the block.

As correctly stated by 3.23pm, it takes the USA and other big countries to FALL which is very likely to happen and poor Fiji with its ongoing tideous talanoa about the new flag will receive the rippling effects so bad that the big hoo-ha time wastage on the flag will be considered a complete waste of precious time!!! You'd best picture yourself holding just the pole as everything will be deemed meaningless except saving your life !!

Good sense shall prevail.

Anonymous said...


Yes just like the USA is force-feeding the people of their "once upon a time nation so proud and fair but is no longer the same land of freedom and justice" so shall it be for Fiji. Look at the state of social and economic affairs of the USA and know that something big is about to hit them!

We in Fiji who dare to venture for knowledge and truth are not fools. We do have our chosen STOOGES in power who are misleading the people.

Its quite frightening to know that we have RULES concerning the flag that is to be respected so highly that we may as well say we're being forced to WORSHIP and BOW before this new flag or else get thrown into timbaktoo for years!!

As in AMERICA with all the shocking changes taking place for the worst so shall it be around the globe not forgetting our little tiny spec in the ocean 'Fiji'!

If we're not becoming a communist nation, then why all the forceful harsh laws being shoved at our faces huh?>

Anonymous said...

Isou sara...if Frank did not withdraw the flag...keitou march this week...Lucky saraga boy...

Anonymous said...

@4:01 get lost.

@4:14PM we have heard that before...

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

4.25 pm.
Piece of crap

Anonymous said...

let's stick to the issue here.

If you are pro-government, your position can be:
1) I dislike so much the colonial flag that anything else would be better.
2) I dislike the colonial flag but I need a nice flag to support the change.
3) I don't have an opinion about the colonial flag and I will consider the quality of the new proposal before making a choice.
4) I like the colonial flag.

If you are anti-government, your position can be:
5) Don't touch to my colonial flag.
6) If you can show me a better flag, I will consider it.
7) I don't like the colonial flag at all and I support the change, whatever the new flag is.
8) I don't like the colonial flag, but I ask for a democratic process to change it.

It is likely that a majority of the population of Fiji could fall in the category 1-2-3-6-7-8.
The challenge for Bainimarama will be to handle the issue with diplomacy.

Vakamalua mada!

Anonymous said...

"“I urge every Fijian of every age and background to give your opinions on the current designs, suggest new designs and join our crusade to find a national symbol we can all identify with – a design that speaks to the experience of being a Fijian now and in the future, not the experience of our colonial past. A great flag for a great country.”

Here I wonder what Bainimarama means. The future? God knows what it will be. Now? Well... Fiji is still made of 333 islands or so. The colonial past? Of course many of us want to get rid of the SYMBOLS of our colonial past as long as they carry ambiguity or may be inappropriate. I think the bananas are VERY inappropriate. The Union Jack means that we are a British territory to anyone who knows nothing about us Fijians.

But I am not sure what Bainimarama means by "colonial past". Can we have a flag linked to our history? I think it would be wise. Can we preserve a link with the UK in a more subtle manner? I hope so. If we are to gain a maximum of support about this flag change, we will have to reevaluate the QUALITY of our current symbolism, that doesn't mean to deny our past. Anti-colonial doesn't mean anti-British. Anti-colonial doesn't mean anti-history.

Our past is more relevant than our future since we have got no idea what the future will be! Let's simply improve the symbolism on our flag and respect the rules of vexillology. That should be enough to get the support of a large chunk of the population.

If we can't please (at least secretly) a certain proportion of the opposition, it will be a very unpleasant journey... let's be DEMOCRATIC!

Anonymous said...

I appreciate the "ideas" by the Archbishop.

The flag needs "ideas" from our leaders, Chiefs, businessmen, Pastors, Talatala, school children, etc..it should not be put into competition in the first place

The flag must represent "freedom" and not "undemocratic"

The new flag must have the blessing of the "People" (as written in the constitution "We the People"

Fiji must not forget God, looking back to the past, where we are now and into the future.....as in Genesis - God's promised to Abraham

1. I will make you a great nation.

2. I will bless you.

3. I will make your name great.

4. You will be a blessing.

5. I will bless those who bless you.

6. I will curse those who curse you.

7. All people on earth will be blessed through you.

8. I will give you the land of Canaan.

Anonymous said...

I respect your view, even though I think that a national flag is not a "religious flag" so to speak.

We should respect everybody and should we chose to use a symbol that has a religious link (like the British did on their flag actually) then it would be nice to think carefully about it... In my opinion, New Zealand and Australia with their southern cross may have found a nice solution to the problem. Nobody overthere would oppose the southern cross, only the Union Jack is an issue... and not because of its "crosses" but because its colonial flavor.

Actually, come to think about it, maybe Fiji should use the southern cross as well? Nobody thought about it... not a single proposal I've seen used it. Food for thought...

Anonymous said...

to be democratic, I think that Bainimarama should give up the idea of "locking" the new flag into the constitution. The reason is simple: if the flag is accepted by the People, then there will be no fear of going back to the colonial flag. If the new flag is not genuinely accepted by the people, we want to have the right to change it again through a simple electoral process (whether that means going back to the colonial flag or having a new competition). We don't want to WASTE MORE MONEY in a referendum.

We accept that the MPs are free to take a decision on our behalf at the end of the day since we voted them into parliament. They have to listen to us and if they do so, things will be alright. A simple poll should be enough to measure the public acceptance of the new flag and all MPs should then vote (secret vote would be more genuine). If we are really unhappy after the whole process is finished, we want to have the possibility to change the flag in 4, 8 or 12 years whatever. If we are really happy after a little while (assuming it always take some time to accept change) then we can "lock" the new flag in the constitution like Khaiyum wants to do right now (which is a big mistake).

That would be a very honest gesture of Bainimarama towards democracy. Make the competition more transparent by following the rules chosen initially. The flag committee is not there to design the flag! Then just listen to the people and don't threaten those who oppose the change...they have the right to do so!

Anonymous said...

My friend, when another coup eventuates and this government is gotten rid of, than nothing will be locked into the constitution, the constitution will be thrown out the door, the constitution and the decrees mean nothing, its just a big joke, laugh about it like I do, let khaiyum lock everything in the constitution, its meaningless, after next coup, the constitution will be burnt like the ghai constitution was burnt, So don't worry about it, JUST LAUGH AT THE FACT THE KHAIYUM THINKS HE IS HERE TO STAY, I haven't heard a funnier joke than this one.His and bainis time will come in due time!

Vili Rakoro said...

Since Bainimarama hates the Colonial symbols, how about he change the Fiji Military insignia first before thinking about the flag.
It has a lion and a crown on it.
I think they should change the Fiji Military insignia first and see what people think.
They should change the Lion to a Snake, because snake is native to Fiji.
May be 2 snakes.

Anonymous said...

@8:03 PM yes I know that's a possibility. The future is always unpredictable.

But as I love Fiji, and as I never supported any coup, I think this big circus has to end some day. Whatever the constitution is, if we the People are unhappy and our politicians listen to us, they can actually change the constitution, little by little. Make the new laws and have a referendum would be better than a coup! That would be the wise option because truly, we can't afford another coup. The country will go bankrupt. I suppose we all need to swallow our little pill and do something good for our country. It is impossible to please everybody all the time... I can see good and bad things on both side of the parliament and I think that any enlighten person can do so as well.

I think Fiji deserves a great flag, a flag without obvious symbols of our colonial past but with a friendly reference to the UK.

Anonymous said...

@8:17 I think we all thought about that one... hahhaha Queen Elizabeth Barracks...
it is actually a colonial nonsense too...

well apparently they want to change the coats of arms too now... if you look at most countries' coats of arms, they use elements from the flag in a way or in another... so when chosing the new flag keep in mind that the coats of arms will likely be changed accordingly!

Anonymous said...

I would suggest not to worry about the new flag too much, it aint going anywhere, after this government is kicked out, the very first thing that will be done is to raise our very own immensely loved old flag to show that we are once again, Fiji as it is supposed to be, no racism, no dictatorship, a new government that hears plight of all and respects the view of people and believes in cooperation and engagement of people at the ground level, nothing will be forced upon institutions and people, everything will happen collectively with mutual respect, A new Fiji. And yes, the whole world will be shown the true colour of this government and all that they did since they tookover, and BTW, proof of election ridging will also be shown to the international community. PERIOD.

Anonymous said...


The ISIS flag is a "religious flag"..motto - conquer and occupy, our new national flag should be a "born again" Christianized flag

Our new flag must have a "symbol" to represent Christianity, why? My grandfather, a cannibal became a human when he accepted Jesus Christ


The FFP has an undemocratic way of doing things

Yet, our national motto says: Fear God and Honor the Queen. But we have chopped of the Queens head in our currency, trying to erase the Queen's escutcheon, kill the golden lion and crucify St George on the cross

Anonymous said...

@8:42 PM

I am not a supporter of FF, but I am a honest person. What I have seen so far in Fiji is that the election results actually reflect the will of the people. SODELPA has become a "village party" and Fiji is moving towards urbanisation. My analysis is that FF gave a lot of freedom to our people (ni-Vanuatu, Solomoners, iTaukeis, Indians, etc.) Freedom from our own culture actually! Have you noticed how elders and turaga ni koro around the country complain that their own people don't listen to them anymore? that is the weird thing...

It took me some time to understand the magnitude of the change in the mindset of the new generation. I suppose I am getting old. We Fijians are not very comfortable to talk about it, but let the people vote secretly and you see what they want... I suspect that a lot of people in villages think that their vote is not secret so therefore they vote along their talatala's line... one Fijian lady in a nearby village was surprised when I told her it was impossible for her husband to know how she voted during a previous election... so I think we have to look at both sides of the story.

The fact that the voting age has been lowered also explain the results. SODELPA is going nowhere. Fiji will need a new Opposition party and that will require a merging of iTaukei and Indian interests (not a bad thing at all!!!)

You sound a little bit too much like a disgruntled Mike Beddoes to me... I reckon SODELPA failed miserably. We need a new opposition.

As for the change of flag, it will depend of the mana of our new flag. Time will tell.

Anonymous said...

I support change but change of the government.As for the flag, if another coup happens, I bet it will be first thing that will be burnt followed by the constitution because both have been forced upon us. Well, if FF doesn't change its ways, than eventually the civilians are going to say enough is enough, people are getting tired of the government of the day, forget about the opposition, they are wasteless. Another coup is imminent if bainikhaiyum don't change they ways, They better start behaving and treating the citizens of this country with respect.

Anonymous said...

Since we hate all things Colonial then Queen Elizabeth Barracks should change its name to Vutusona Barracks ie VB for short.
Queens Road shall be called Look North Road and the Kings Road should be called Look South Road.
Colonial War Memorial Hospital should change its name too. Maybe call it Waimanu Road Hospital.

Anonymous said...

Please keep the Cross of Jesus Christ on the new flag.It always gives me goosebumps, when our boys score a try in rugby sevens, make the sign on the Cross,point to the heavens, the commentator quips, 'This is a deeply religious nation'...they're giving thanks to the Man up above'

With deep respects to our diversity and religions, Fijians, yes, the natives of this islands are called, we would humbly, request to have the 'Sign' or symbol of our faith, Jesus Christ's Cross, on the new flag which is missing from those shown.

Anonymous said...

If cross or reference to Christ is put on the flag, its reference is Christianity, Fiji being a multiracial country doesn't want symbolism of one ethinic group, That kindaa flag has SODELPA WRITTEN ALL OVER IT.OOPS.

Tomasi said...

Friends and fellow Fijians. I believe that there is a consensus amongst a great majority of people of every community, that Fiji has now reached a place of reckoning. Much has gone on since that fateful day in December 2006, when Voreqe and his group of men illegally took control of the Government and our nation. From that day on, they have methodically, systematically dismantled key institutions and processes. The flag is just one of the many dictatorial actions and decisions by Khai and Bhai that powerfully demonstrates how blatantly arrogant and evil they are. Much of what they had done are absolutely illegal, immoral and will drastically change the social, political and economic dynamics and stability of this nation. If allowed to continue, Voreqe, Khaiyum and their regime and their advisers in the shadows will cause more pain and destruction. I will make this bold statement out my love for our nation and all its communities and citizens. Khaiyum and Voreqe have been allowed too much power and control. Parliament only serves to perpetuate and increase their control. THIS REGIME IS OUT OF CONTROL. KHAIYUM IS ABSOLUTELY OUT OF CONTROL. WE THE PEOPLE MUST ACT NOW TO STOP THEIR THUGGERY, DESPOTISM, NEPOTISM, TYRRANY AND EVIL ACTIONS. IT IS TIME TO TAKE THEM OUT SO THAT WE MAY BEGIN TO TALK AND AGREE AGAIN AS A NATION OF DECENT AND GOD FEARING PEOPLE ON WHERE AND HOW TO GO ON FROM HERE.

One day, history will judge us on how we have lived our lives in accordance with the longstanding principles of righteousness, truth, justice and freedom. One day, our succeeding generations will survey the history of our young nation, and pause, ... to note, that in 2015, after having waited patiently for nine long years, we the people of Fiji finally stood up against an evil group of men and women who have sought to destroy our nation by force and political and legal subterfuge. Let us not delay or hesitate anymore. This regime is out of control. They have defied every legal code and even trashed our Constitution. They have stolen, robbed, murdered, lied, and blatantly paraded themselves as almighty powerful rulers disregarding our rights and freedoms and our well being. It is time to for us the people to act.

I humbly ask our leaders in Parliament and others in all corners and sectors of Fiji. Khaiyum and Bhai are out of control. We must act NOW. We must act decisively. We must act together to save our nation from civil war.

Anonymous said...

Bhai and Khai did trash our 1997 constitution by illegally abrogating it through the former President Rt. Iloilovatu who was senile. And then they burned the proposed peoples' constitution drafted by Yagesh Ghai, while shoving down our throats the present illegal constitution without the peoples' permission. And tnen now, they are trying to change the flag design and symbol in that they are forcing us to forget our past 97 years of peace and prosperity and civilization after the deed of cession to Great Britain.

Now they want us to look into their kind of dismal future with tyrannical regimes who do not respect freedom of association, speech and thought for fear that they would lose their grip on powerless citizens especially the indigenous people.

Thank you Tomasi. It appears they are losing their credibility now as they attempt to further their dictatorial agendas for personal and selfish gains.

Anonymous said...

Long live the Bainimarama government and the Military.You are the minority and we are the majority.If you don't like it then take it like a bitch and yes that's right ACCEPT IT.The FF is the peoples party and we will completely eradicate those who are against us.IF YOU NOT WITH US THEN YOU ARE AGAINST US.I assure those who are against us to give up because we the majority will remove and eradicate you once and for all. Long live Bainimarama love live the REPUBLIC OF FIJI.

Anonymous said...

Long live Frank and Mary Kean... I mean Bainimarama... Long live Khaiyum and his many wives... and 77 virgins.. (I always wonder why 77..why not 1 million or 100 or 50...why only 77...) Long live Royal Fiji Military opps Republic Of Fiji Military and the Queen Elizabeth Barracks.... We are not with you so we are against you... Eradication is a process called racial and mass extinction. You are the party of Indians and 40% of Fijians. May you live a short life and suffer sudden death....

Anonymous said...

FFirst supporters days are sooooo bad that they hiding behind khaiyums skirt. If you do that the only thing he will do is SHIT IN YOUR FACE. That's whats he has been doing so far.

Anonymous said...

9.33am. This is pretty cool. I agree totally and beg the committee to consider these points in their finality but with time gap zeroing in I would welcome something SPECIFIC. -A design , not a guide. Perhaps that's what the committee wants now.

Anonymous said...

@9:15 AM

I think you fail to accept the result of the elections... what I mean here is simple: we all know what happened in Fiji after 2006 (crimes, Ghai constitution, etc.) and we all know that when it comes to corruption / mismanagement, it is pretty much business as usual... business as it was before. Let's not be too cynical, but that's it. Somehow, Fijians think that SODELPA is worst than FF... to do a revolution, you need more than 60% AGAINST the government...not in favor of them... Everything played in favor of SODELPA in theory... but somehow they managed to lose... in any other democracy, Kepa would have given up her job the very night she lost the elections! Think about it...

9.33am said it the right way : "even in our mistakes, we did much better than most, if not all, other nations... even in our failures we are a bit more of the way the world should be"
Violence is not the solution, and certainly won't please those asking for Jesus' cross (10:22PM). If you are a follower of Jesus, ask yourself what He would do... what did he do with the Roman Emperor?

@11:38 PM Here I think the suggestion of 6:45 PM (the southern cross) might be the way forward as it is not per say a religious symbol, but may carry a subtle symbol to show respect to missionaries without whom none of us would be here today to talk about the new flag. By the way, I have always been proud of Fiji because we are a member of the 3 Union Jack countries (NZ and AUS) NZ will probably remove its Union Jack, and Australia will probably do it "one day", certainly if Scotland leaves the UK! So now to keep our link with our big brothers (I know some PM don't like them but we PEOPLE all love Aussies and Kiwis) we could have our own southern cross but on our lovely blue field. What say? Anyway, the southern cross doesn't belong to anyone. If Indians can live under the cross in NZ or Australia, why not Fiji? The cross is not just a symbol for Christianity, but also for the VALUES of Christianity. These are not in contradiction with other religions. I have seen the cross being raised on hindu flags in hindu temple alongside with the hindu symbols and islamic symbols... no one is against the cross, that would be childish! We all have to make compromises to find an acceptable flag.

Anonymous said...

@1:14PM Take Cakobau's flag. Remove his coats of arms and put a white southern cross on the blue half, right in the middle? Simple, elegant and show respect to our REAL FIJIAN FLAG!

Anonymous said...

when you think about it, our real non colonial fijian flag is cakobau's flag...
I like the idea of southern cross on the blue side!
Maybe that compromise can please some MPs in both side of the parliament...

Nobody could say it's Bainimarama's flag! And nobody could say it's a colonial flag! And nobody could say there is no cross on the flag! And nobody could say there is a cross on the flag! And nobody could say it's not the real Fijian flag!

Why should we use the 1970 flag (a variant of our colonial flag) over Cakobau's flag?

Anonymous said...

Sounds good!

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Interesting, indeed.

Anonymous said...

The idea of changing the flag was contemplated before, as we can read on wikipedia :

"It has remained unchanged since Fiji was declared a republic in 1987, despite calls from some politicians (such as Opposition Senator Atu Emberson-Bain) for changes."

It is obvious that some members of the Opposition and some nationalists would like the idea, but they would probably be unable to come with acceptable symbols.

The southern cross is a very good idea because it would force BOTH sides of the parliament to make some little compromises. Bainimarama would have to accept the idea that some sort of "cross" (even though it is actually a constellation) is acceptable. And Kepa would have to accept that the real flag of Fiji is Cakobau's flag, not the British one. I wonder why nobody out of 2000 designers thought about it!

Since it is obvious that we need a compromise if we are to move forward, then I support the idea! Let's remember Cakobau's legacy and let's put a symbol of hope in the South Pacific!

I think that 4 white stars like New Zealand (without the red) is the best. Standard five-pointed stars for me. After all we have 4 divisions in Fiji, that makes sense.

Someone should propose that flag now...

Anonymous said...

The advantage of the southern cross on Cakobau's flag is that nobody would dare to turn it upside down and nobody would dare to make fun of the design of Fiji's very first prime minister!

Anonymous said...

Some of the 23 flags already have got a Christian flavor too : http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/symbols/5-point-star

Anonymous said...

Maybe the archbishop should propose that flag.
Nobody would mess with the archbishop's flag...ha..ha

Anonymous said...

hey ...o cei ena mai tutuvi ena kuila qo....e cava eda na mai ologi kina ni da sa na mate?e na kauti keda tani mai na ca se vakabulai keda mai nai valavala ca sa tu rawa tu?e warai e veivakalialiai jiko....cakava toka na veisau ni kuila dua tale na ka e caka lo jiko..!!!yadra VITI!!!

Anonymous said...

@7:57 au taleitaka na kuila qo.

Anonymous said...

As someone said before, CHANGING the flag is in itself a symbol suggesting that the country is CHANGING to a new state. There is no need for adding those weird triangles.

If we prefer to honor our past and our ancestors by flying a variant of Cakobau's flag, what's wrong with that?
I prefer Cakobau's flag to our colonial flag anytime. Removing his crown means that the time of monarchy is over and adding the southern cross means that we are a republic of the south pacific like New Zealand. The southern cross would be on the right, which actually means that we are moving forward. That should be enough to please those obsessed by the idea of "moving forward"... and those who can't live without a cross... without hurting those obsessed by the secular state!

Overall, that's probably the most intelligent thing we have heard in a long while about this flag issue! I would vote for that flag anytime over any of the 23 proposed designs.

Anonymous said...

For those contemplating the CROSS to be our flag design, think otherwise. The right place for the cross is in the hearts of men and his house of worship. Jesus would want it this way too..Not to represent this nation, ever. I'm a Christian and I don't want the cross to represent a country already . riddled with corruption, murder, filth and evil.
History had told us of the atrocities committed, violence, rape, slaying , pillaging of the land by an army with a cross on their flag, the Christian crusades. Their invasion was to convert non Christians to Christianity but it turned out to be a conquest.The result was the most horrendous slain of men, women and children , ever, the taking of the land, the power it exert upon the people, wealth amassed by the invading armies all in the name of Christianity. The army was headed then by the Pope had also featured King Richard the lion heart of England Everyone knows King Richard riding a black stallion holding a white flag with a red cross. Everyone knew he was great and beloved by his subjects. But not everyone knew he was a murderer..he was a crusade.
I will Not vote for the beloved Cross to be on our Flag.

Anonymous said...

@9:36 AM The Southern Cross is a constellation, not a Christian cross. Those extremist Christians will see a cross in it and those more balanced like you won't. Everybody should be happy.

By the way, it's not because some extremist people have used religious symbols that those religious symbols become worthless. Nazi used a hindu symbol on their flag... and you can still see the swastika in Fiji and India!

Of course all governments end up doing evil things. Our flag, as a symbol, is supposed to fly over all governments and over everybody. A good flag should inspire us to become better. England still has the red cross on a white background like during the crusades, yet the country has grown up a lot since the dark ages!

Otherwise I suggest Cakobau's flag without the crown, that's it.

Anonymous said...

Could we not have a flag with Pope's, Mohammeds, hanuman,s and Tomasi's arses on a blue background as our flag? (Sorry I forgot the jews.) That should keep every one, except the atheists, happy. Only asking.

Anonymous said...

@9.49 I agree but the southern cross to most, maybe all, is constellation but to others is astral . It is a group of stars formed in the atmosphere which is now a medium of worship for clairvoyants.
I hope the design we want to put on our flag isn't another object of worship.

Anonymous said...

10.51...you're so pathetic!
If you don't have anything good to share, just shut the f...up.

Anonymous said...

Heard from reliable sources that Vili Rakoro, aka Cavuka Vutusona, has been hospitalised with an infected anus. Disgusting piece of shit!!!

Anonymous said...

@10:54 AM quit drugs now.

If it's good for NZ and Australia, there is no reason why it would be wrong for Fiji.

Anonymous said...

Arses of Pope's, Mohammeds, Hanuman, Tomasi, Jews and Atheists.

6 Arses represented by 6 stars on a blue background.

Voila ! You got it.

If there is only 2 Stars then I know its 2 ARSES ie Bai & Kai.
If Moon Crescent = Islam

Anonymous said...

The vertical bands on Cakobau's flag could stand for a nation standing on its own (end of colonialism).
The removal of the coats of arms for the end of monarchy and tribalism (republic of Fiji).
Blue and white for our respect of Cakobau's choice (iTaukei traditions and customs).
The southern cross on the right for our place in the Pacific family and Fiji moving forward.
The 4 stars for our 4 divisions.

Simple is beautiful. Forget about all the weird colors. Stick to what we consider "Fijian".
A great flag for a great country!

Anonymous said...

Blue and white also for the two main ethnic groups living in peace and the blue sky for hope of a better future!

Anonymous said...

12.22..what are the 4 divisions? Name them

Anonymous said...

11.50, come on man..M not drug addict
but factual. Why towing from NZ and Aust when we can create our own. Cakobau flag is ok, why bringing in the southern cross star. Let me reiterate- the constelation star is a medium of worship for the clairvoyants. Clairvoyants are witches( meke vula kei na kalokalo- another term..dau vakadraudrau) Didn't they call upon these to summon the spirits . The term is astral projection or astrology.
Let's get away from the idea of having the southern cross on our flag.
Yes bring in Cakobaus flag without a crown and involve the Fiji Museums expertise in this field. They have been left out totally by this regime .

Anonymous said...

From the lyrics of "we are Fiji" :

"now is the time for all to see that we can live in harmony
from now on we'll walk together
side by side
we are fiji
lets put our differences behind us
we can do it if we try"

STANDING SIDE BY SIDE. Sounds like Cakobau foresaw what Fiji would become...
I love Cakobau's flag concept. The colors are just right and peaceful.
Let's stand by his flag, remove the coats of arms and add the southern cross. GREAT!!!

@1:11 PNG has a bad flag too then? Too many crazy people in Fiji... the southern cross in the "atmosphere"? o iko lialia?

Anonymous said...

Looking through the window... one half of the sky is white, the other one is Cakobau's blue. Beautiful!

Cakobau's flag has blue on the right. It could mean good weather following a cloudy sky?

Maybe that's enough?
Look at Indonesia, Ukraine or Poland flags... it doesn't need to be complicated!!!

What matters is SYMBOLISM. Cakobau's flag has a lot of it hidden inside...


Anonymous said...

12.22.,12.25,.1.23 the same blogger.. what are the 4 divisions?

Anonymous said...

12.22,12.25,1 23, and 1.45..the same person now silent...what are the 4 divisions???

Pythagoras said...

4 ÷ 2 = ?

10 ÷ 5 = ?

5 ÷ 1 = ?

8 ÷ 2 = ?

These are the four divisions, and Bainimarama couldn't solve it.

Anonymous said...

No stars. No nothing. Blue and white.

Anonymous said...

NEXT TO GO TO JAIL are THE SCAMMERS Bainimarama and Kaiyum

$3m road scam: 3 jailed, Liwaiono gets suspended sentence
Wednesday, June 24, 2015

Update: 1:10PM THREE of the men convicted for the $3 million road scam received prison sentences ranging from four to eight years by the High Court in Suva this morning.

The fourth convicted person, Aisea Liwaiono was handed a suspended sentence by Justice Paul Madigan.

Justice Madigan sentenced businessman Firoz Jan Mohammed to eight years imprisonment and former civil servants Iliesa Turagacati and Navitalai Tamanitoakula received six years and fours years respectively.

Juab Dean said...

Firoz Jan Mohammed has been framed and jailed by SODELPA and Qarase supporters.

Anonymous said...

To the silent blogger. .you are so upsetting. Come back and answer the single question posted. .what are the 4 divisions in Fiji that your southern star represents. .
Come on man, finish what you start. Luveni yali!
I don't want any pagan representation on our flag. I don't want any meaning off the hoot to fool the people with.
Vanish in oblivion!! because your brain is pissed.

Anonymous said...

@2:20 PM
obviously you are not living in Fiji.
Our 4 divisions are:
-North Indians
-South Indians
- Kai Yanuyanu
- Real Kai Viti

The North and South divisions have merged together over the years.
Same thing with the Kai Yanuyanu and Real Kai Viti.

Anonymous said...

@3:07 drugs not good for your little brain.
None of the stars represent a division.
Just like blue and white do not represent a particular race.
It's call symbolism.
as for yourself, you are plain dumb.
O na tini evei? St-Giles!

Anonymous said...

3.14..I asked the question based on the posts. The posts said 4 stars represent 4 divisions, it didn't say ' symbolism'
Idiot! Go get your medication.

Anonymous said...

@3:36 PM You are just plain dumb... PLAIN DUMB! LIALIA SARA GA!
"It didn't say 'symbolism' " ha..ha..unbelievable... you realize your stupidity and then you dare saying idiot? You will make us laugh for some time...

A little question for you : which one of the 50 stars on the American flag is California?
You can meditate on that.

Anonymous said...

3.09 well well.. who created this 4 division? and where the hell in Fiji it is written?
By the way are you I taukei?
Your 4 division is segregating the I taukei( kai yanuyanu and real kai viti ) .
I'm confused whether your brain is at work here or Marijuana. .
Your third division by name means the kai yanuyanu do not belong with the 4th division because they are not Real Kai Viti., huh!! Boy this is inciteful You can start a civil unrest.
listen up Fiji! this is what's going on in secret.
Forget about the southern cross on our flag.

Anonymous said...

@3:35 PM I am kai loma making fun of dumb people like YOU!
Who created this 4 division? Ask your guru. You look very much into spiritism...
I think it is Vili who likes talking about the kai Yanuyanu and since I know you miss him, I thought your dumb brain would like it as a dumb answer. So many civil unrests have started in Coup 4.5... poor crying baby.

yes Fiji listen! this is the level of stupidity we want to get rid of in Fiji!!!

By the way California where I live usually is star number 33.

Anonymous said...

Need to commission a new artist or focus group to come up with another set of options. The current ones are ORDINARY.

Anonymous said...

We should borrow the SODELPA symbol from the party and use it for our national flag. The symbol is masi type design and should be coloured very deep navy blue with turquoise blue as background. If wer'e to add the Cakobau flag insignia, then we can colour it white, and without the coat of arms.

FFP can force SODELPA to give up their symbol by just voting for it in parliament; they have the numbers. But I wonder why FFP had to borrow the current fiji flag for their symbol. They could have easily borrowed one of the 23 proposed designs that have been advertised.

Anonymous said...

In Fiji, we are not allowed to put on our flag things like boats, shells, stars, triangles, coconut trees, crosses, crescents, suns, lions and what else? Oh yes, bananas and Union Jacks.

We are indeed a unique nation. That's why Cakobau's background will do with me.
The only problem I see is that he won't be there to raise the flag on Fiji Day.

Back to the future!

Kuila said...

A plain flag without any symbols suits Fiji...at least we can easily change our flag in the next coup

Anonymous said...

The Kai Lomas should not be permitted to voice their opinion on our flag...After all they are the products of the Union Jack which is about to be made a museum piece.

Anonymous said...

@6:45 PM Some Kai Lomas not product of the Union Jack!!!

Anonymous said...

“To kill Americans and their allies, civilians, and military is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it.”
– Osama bin Laden, Feb. 23, 1998

Anonymous said...

@4.18pm..well said!
Thank you very much bro for straightening up the idiot @3.51.
Maybe also write him a new med prescription. What he is on now(grass) is pissing his brain. Dementia is prevalent and possibly write a referral note for him to give his physician to be transferred to the local memory facility- St Giles.

Anonymous said...

The next time you bow down to kiss the floor make sure that you bow low as far as you can so that your arse sticks upright in mid air and your mouth reaches your balls.
And when you do, SUCK your balls.
- Osama bin Sucker, June 24,2015

Anonymous said...

@3:11 AM you're welcome.

We still live in a country where most people are afraid of "ghosts" at night (just like little children) and where people can get murdered because some idiots think they are practicing witchcraft... WE ARE IN 2015!!! There was one case in the newspaper last year. One Indian guy got murdered because he used to "offer" the first bilo to some invisible ghost. MIDDLE AGE!!! I was shocked that NOBODY replied anything in the Letters to the Editor (as I now live half the time in the US because no $$$ in Fiji, I may have missed them... I don't read the papers "religiously" but the lack of interest from writers afterwards told something about us...). It shows clearly that a lot of people in our country are not quite sane...St-Giles is way too small and dilapidated. Look at all the nonsense that guy said in only a few lines!!! What can you reply to that? I thought he was joking in the beginning... but I was wrong!!!! meke vula kei na kalokalo @1:11PM? For the non-Fijians here, it means "dance of the moon and the star", a meke that some of our ancestors did in the stone age... like probably in 99.9% human civilizations at some point! Human foolishness, yeah.

You wont hear me saying that too often, but one good thing about Bainimarama is that he is a game changer in a country where the mindset is locked in STONE AGE. The reasons behind the coup are far from being noble (they are personal issues), but as an unexpected consequence of his coup we see things that we would never have seen otherwise... things that will have a lasting impact probably.

At least Cakobau went from Stone Age to kind-of-modern era in less than a few decades. That's why his flag is great actually.

The best we can do is probably just to give a nice meaning to his flag. At least the vertical bands can mean a lot of nice things like "standing for independence", "moving from clouds to blue sky" , "2 cultures living side by side" and so on. That's what a flag is supposed to be. Simple, but meaningful.

Anonymous said...

"Old is Gold" is what Pita Waqavono says about the colonial flag.
"Older is Better" is what I say.

Cakobau's flag minus the crown is wonderful. It says exactly what Bainimarama wants to say (moving forward from monarchy and standing united as an independant country) and it can't be turned upside down.
Plus we can see that flag for FREE in the sky everyday! We will save a lot of money.

All that time our flag was right there under our eyes and no one could see it...

Blessing grant oh God of nations on the isles of Fiji
As we stand united under noble banner blue [OUR BLUE SKY AFTER THE CLOUDS ARE GONE IS OUR BANNER BLUE]
And we honour and defend the cause of freedom ever
God bless Fiji

For Fiji, ever Fiji, let our voices ring with pride
For Fiji, ever Fiji, her name hail far and wide [SKY IS THE LIMIT]
A land of freedom, hope and glory, to endure what ever befall
May God bless Fiji
Forever more!

Blessing grant, oh God of nations, on the isles of Fiji
Shores of golden sand and sunshine, happiness and song [BORDER BETWEEN A WHITE SANDY BEACH AND A BLUE LAGOON, FUN IN THE SUN]
Stand united, we of Fiji, fame and glory ever [TWO VERTICAL RECTANGLES TOUCHING]
Onward march together [FROM WHITE CLOUDS TO BLUE SKY]
God bless Fiji.

Cakobau's flag background matches our national anthem much better than the colonial flag!!!

Vinaka vakalevu Ratu Cakobau, may your name be written on the plaque, may your spirit raise our new flag in October.
I propose Ratu Joni Madraiwiwi as the official winner since he is from Bau and is a real gentleman! Come back from Nauru Sir!

Anonymous said...

Y not. They are part of the I taukei and has full privileges to anything here in Fiji. They are our vasu and they have great minds too!
I taukei

Anonymous said...

Ratu Joni is the most honorable man in Fiji.
He didn't support the coup, he never talks badly.
He is pragmatic.
When he used to write letters to the editor, we never used his title Ratu.
A great man indeed. Respected by everybody, iTaukei, Indians, Europeans, SODELPA, FF.

Let's look at history : the 1970 flag was a simple change of color from the colonial flag.
Our new flag could be a simple removal of the symbol of monarchy (crown).

What makes a great flag is not that much the colors like some people seem to think.
It's the MANA of the SYMBOLS.

Take the Indonesian flag for example. If you don't know the history of Indonesia, you might think it's a boring flag. But if you know that the legend says that the people of Indonesia teared up the blue of the flag of the Netherlands to get rid of the "blue blood" of their colonial power, then suddenly it STRIKES to the heart! That's a great flag for that very reason. It strikes.

We already have our great Fijian flag matching our national anthem!!!
Wake up people, let's move forward. We need some blue sky, we have to make compromises otherwise we will all end up at St Giles.

Anonymous said...

7.57 and 10.18.
I totally support your ideas. Its worthy. Thank you
I felt a sense of pride when I read and sing silently our national anthem. My heart sank with every lyric reminding me of our own survival and growth over the years since 1970 . The creator and designer of our current flag must never be forgotten. Her design is the symbol of Fiji the world had ever known had also reminded visitors and foreign nationals that Fiji is the way the world should be.
We have on our very nose what we are looking for to display on our flag. The lyrics on our national anthem unlocks the design.....Let us zero in on- The Flag of Rt Cakobau.

KUA NI RERE said...

Bainimarama is an idiot
What the fark is his problem.
When he looks at the Union Jack, does he pee in his pants or why the fark does he not like it?
The British did not enslave us like the Americans enslaved Black people.
So what the fark is Bainimarama's problem.
The Indians in India had to fight the British so of course they have every right to hate the Colonial Flag.

Whereas for us Fijians, the British helped us ALL THE WAY. They helped us when the Americans tried to con us in 1800. They built great Infrastructure, Government and Judiciary for us.
Then they graciously gave us Independence when we asked for it.

We will burn his farking flag , whatever it may be.


Anonymous said...

@2:10 British took Fiji because some australian interests already in Fiji explained to the British how to make good money... Yes the British did many great things, but it also came to a cost to a lot of people... ask the Indentured Indians and Solomoners and ni-Vanuatu... and ask iTaukeis who were kept aside of development in their villages... SUGAR=$$$$$ Read your history again. There are always two sides to a coin...

I don't understand why you say :"SO WHY CHANGE THE FARKING FLAG". Why do you insult the very flag you pretend to love?

The real flag of Fiji is Cakobau's. It is only appropriate to give him credit now, he is the one who actually ceded Fiji for a certain period of time so that iTaukeis could catch up with the rest of the world. Now we are in the 21st century... but still Cakobau's vision is right there on his flag. I respect the fact that a man who was originally a terrible person changed and became such a smart man. His intelligence is displayed right there on his flag. It is the story of his life, of the lifes of iTaukeis, of the lifes of indentured Indians, of Fiji. His flag is Fiji's destiny. Nothing less than that. I hope someone will propose this amazing and lovely design. Simple and STRIKING!!!

All credits to the maestro of flag design!

Anonymous said...

We need to get that idea in the media now.
We need to ask Ratu Madraiwiwi what he thinks about it. He is the only man who might be able to bring back a sense of order here. Amazing coincidence that such a gentleman is a son of Bau island too! This is a call from Destiny.

I love Rt Cakobau's concept 1000000000000 times more than those 23 crazy designs together!!!
If we are to have a new flag against the will of most people, let it at least be a flag that inspires us all.

If a man like Rt Cakobau managed to change so much in so little time, how come it takes us so long to get under the blue sky?
Rt Cakobau was more than a Great Fijian Leader, his very own life was a message of hope for humankind. Fiji can be the way the world should be. We can all change for the better.

BTW, I am asking Coup 4.5 to keep the focus on our flag issue UNTIL it is resolved to our satisfaction. The issue is too important to be brushed aside. I know many are getting fed up, but we have to fight for our dignity. We also ask for respect of the current flag. Only when the current flag is too damaged, then it should be changed. DON'T WASTE MONEY TO CHANGE ALL FLAGS IN ONE DAY. That's plain crazy!!! That new flag proposal can be seen in the sky pretty much everyday so no need to rush anything.

Anonymous said...

In 1970, when the British flag was lowered, it was done VERY SLOWLY to show respect. We remember that very well.

@2:08PM In order to show respect to Tessa Mackenzie, the designer of our current flag, let's ask for a period of 3 years to change all government flags progressively. A flag won't last much longer outside, exposed to wind, rain, sun, etc...

So the next time the government will need to order flags, they will just order the simplified Cakobau's version. That way, the actual cost of changing the flag will be brought down to very little. The flags should be MADE IN FIJI and the government should order only a thousand of them (say 20$ each for a good fabric) that's just 20000$ and we remove the most damaged flags first and we put the new flag only on the most important buildings to begin. Let's be smart and pragmatic.

By the way, it is much cheaper to produce a simple flag than a complex one... we might as well save money in the long run! we could actually even make our own Fiji flags at home!

Suomynona said...

Well there was no referendum done anyways as the idea for a flag change just happened without the people even consenting to it.

The current ones being shown just don't come anywhere near the old flag, better remove the Union Jack only and not the coat of arms shield.

Anonymous said...

@6:30PM You are right, but they will go ahead and the coats of arms will change too... so let's try to save whatever we can! The coats of arms are not supposed to be on the flag; and they don't fit with the national anthem.

May I point to the fact that countries like Poland and Russia have one standard version of their flag (red and white for Poland, white, blue and red for Russia) and another version with their national symbol (eagle) on top for government purposes.

We could have the same thing in Fiji. The official flag would be only white and blue (Cakobau's simplified flag) and the government standard would have the full coats of arms on it, right in the middle?

If the government wants to change the coats of arms, we could replace the shield by a vertical version of Cakobau's flag suspended to a pole. The 2 warriors would hold the pole together.

Anonymous said...

Fiji's motto is "Rerevaka na Kalou ka doka na Tui" : Fear God and honor the King/Queen.

The national anthem uses the word God 5 times.
Now let's honor the King and suggest Cakobau's simplified flag and also say that God = White (color of light) and Fiji = Blue for some of the lyrics (the meaning can change to fit every line)

Blessing grant oh God of nations on the isles of Fiji


As we stand united under noble banner blue


And we honour and defend the cause of freedom ever


Onward march together


God bless Fiji


For Fiji, ever Fiji, let our voices ring with pride


For Fiji, ever Fiji, her name hail far and wide,


A land of freedom, hope and glory, to endure what ever befall


May God bless Fiji


Forever more!


Blessing grant, oh God of nations, on the isles of Fiji


Shores of golden sand and sunshine, happiness and song


Stand united, we of Fiji, fame and glory ever


Onward march together


God bless Fiji.


Anonymous said...

This is a perfect match! Wonderfully created and meaningful.
My mind and heart will rest in peace on this one and I'm looking forward to see this design.
@5.43 pm. Yes, for MsTeza Mckenzie's contribution to the nation- She is a Hall of Famer and I would recommend a street under her name.
@4.33 A man of principal and integrity, Rt Madraiwiwi would be happy with this design. And I beleive this flag will bring unity to the yavusa vaka turaga o Kubuna, Burebasaga and Tovata. Our beloved sons and daughters of the Indentured , the Chinese and the Asians, the Pacific Islanders, the Caucasians, the religious communities, all faiths and everyone whose home is Fiji.

Anonymous said...


I propose to declare the day Rt Cakobau converted to Christianity the Cakobau Day and make it public holiday.
Why? Because it symbolizes the greatest change a human person can possibly do : from darkness to light.
This is what we want to accomplish as a society and show it to the world!
The day would also be known as the Flag Day, a day to remember our past and think more about our actions. A day of forgiveness and hope.

the public holiday could also be right in the middle of the year if no direct religious reference is preferred, as we don't have any public holiday for almost 4 months in a row around this time of the year :(. good idea actually come to think about it!!! The flag is split 50-50 so why not split the calendar 50-50 too?

Anonymous said...

All supporting or commenting on the new flag, playing right into the hands of the dictators.
This is exactly what they want; Legitimised removal of Fiji's past by encouraging benign public debate through social media (on C4.5) at the same time introducing "year 0" reforms according to the Bhaikaiyum constitution.
I think the colour for the background should not be blue. Do away with blue all together as it is also a symbol of Fiji's painful colonial past.
The colour yellow should be used for it is the colour of the sun and very "kata-kata" What you reckon?

Anonymous said...

Let's text 1 to the Flag Committee for Cakobau's flag!

Anonymous said...

@11:13 AM No way! I don't want to be rude, but your suggestion is just weird. Sun is white, not yellow by the way...

Bainimarama wants to have HIS Fiji Flag (1) and wants to do away with the Union Jack (2).
Let's do away with the Union Jack, but have OUR FIJIAN FLAG, the simplified flag of Cakobau.

it's a 50-50 compromise, a compromise that will respect the feelings of people like yourself who may not like too much the colonial era, of people like myself who prefer simple designs and of most people on Coup 4.5 who have been fighting a long and peaceful battle for justice. Light blue is NOT the color of pur colonial past, I would say that RED is... Look at the red cross...

Also, the flag has to match with out national anthem and I think it would be really difficult to do better than @3:37 AM.

Anonymous said...

Let's start spreading the concept and lyrics on social networks.
I wonder what Pita Waqavonovono would say about it?

Anonymous said...

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzyawn..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz boring - more pressing issues than a stupid flag change.......Fiji Airways screwed with new CEO.... Chinese interest in our resources will cause irrepairable damage to land, seas, rivers with their pollution....water problems, electricity problems...growing poverty...increased unemployment 40,000 plus school leavers have no future...does not include exiting unemployed and those public servants leaving at ripe age of 55....growing and violent crimes....child prostitution, beggars on street...urban drift impacting on increased slum dwellers and list increases....

Anonymous said...

@11:44 AM zzzzz? I don't think a lot of people consider the forced flag change as something "boring".

All the problems you talk about are real, and we will STAND TOGETHER to fight them!

By the way, Cakobau's flag will be cheaper to produce... at least we will same some money in the long run for the flags themselves (sadly, not for the flag committee, billboards and all that crap from government...)

I wish we had that idea before!!!!

Anonymous said...

11.44. It's stale news for us. Go back to your comfort zone and yawn your brain to sleep, the fool.

Anonymous said...

"Furthermore, complicated flags cost more to make, which often can limit how widely they are used. "
- http://www.flagorder.com/design.html

At least C4.5 can contribute to help us save money in the future... ;)
Long-term investment. Cakobau's wisdom.

Anonymous said...

Everybody who loves Fiji and has a sense of pragmatism, PLEASE LISTEN:

the simplified Cakobau's flag idea was passed to me by a friend who wants to remain anonymous by respect of Fijian tradition.
he said that ANYONE is the owner of his idea, and EVERYONE CAN SUBMIT IT!

So please, if you can look at the sky today and see that flag in your heart, in memory of Cakobau and his wisdom, please submit that flag! Please text #1

This is the flag that will fly above our constitution, a constitution that will have to change as our country will keep changing, but our flag shall fly forever FAR AND WIDE!!!!!

May God Bless Fiji forever more.... WHITE touching BLUE

Anonymous said...

Thank you 4.50 am and to your anon friend, he/she has to get prepared because, if this is approved, his /her name will go down in the history books.
And to that person 3.37am 26th June, the meanings are just too sweet Can't wait to see and know who the 2 people here.

Anonymous said...

@6:05 AM my friend is waaaaaaaay too humble to stand next to the GREAT CAKOBAU, the first TUI VITI... but I can tell you he probably loves this country more than anyone else!

let's just accept that it is WE THE PEOPLE who are raising this flag on TOP OF EVERYTHING we value, including ANY CONSTITUTION (or variant of) . That's my anonymous friend's proposal, and he says it is up to the people to take ownership of their lovely symbols!!!

Cakobau must be winking at us and smiling!!!! ;) it's almost prophetic...


Anonymous said...

That white/blue flag concept (God/chasing clouds) reminds of a song... "I can see clearly now, the rain has gone"

God has been with Fiji all along, hence the vertical line from top to bottom!

Anonymous said...

"I Can See Clearly Now"

I can see clearly now the rain is gone.
I can see all obstacles in my way.
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind.
It's gonna be a bright (bright)
bright (bright) sunshiny day.
It's gonna be a bright (bright)
bright (bright) sunshiny day.

Oh, yes I can make it now the pain is gone.
All of the bad feelings have disappeared.
Here is that rainbow I've been praying for.
It's gonna be a bright (bright)
bright (bright) sunshiny day.

(ooh...) Look all around, there's nothing but blue skies.
Look straight ahead, there's nothing but blue skies.

I can see clearly now the rain is gone.
I can see all obstacles in my way.
Here is that rainbow I've been praying for.
It's gonna be a bright (bright)
bright (bright) sunshiny day.
It's gonna be a bright (bright)
bright (bright) sunshiny day.
It's going to be a bright (bright)
bright (bright) sunshiny day.
Yeah, hey, it's gonna be a bright (bright) bright (bright)
sunshiny day.

Anonymous said...

I think someone should forward this GREAT FLAG CONCEPT to the Fiji Times, Fiji Sun and Flag Committee as the people are still lost, wondering if the flag should have a stupid turtle or a ridiculous star on it...

Simplified Cakobau's flag all the way! Come on guys let's wake up! Some keyboard warrior around?

Anonymous said...

From the time C45 had posted the topic on "the flag new design" I haven't seen a majority opinion such as this coming together in support of Rt Cakobau's flag.
We have to push this across to people, maybe someone, anyone to make this happen.
GOD bless Fiji.

Anonymous said...

@9:41 AM
This is an anti-government website... most people are against the change, we would now expect tons of negative comments... but there are none... (at least none that are clever!) Big silence. That proposal was like a knockout by Cakobau. I think, no one saw it coming. That also "speaks volumes"... I suppose that if it had been posted on a pro-government blog, it would have been a major hit!

All we need is for someone to pen a letter to the newspapers and to the flag committee (newfijiflag at gmail.com)
It can be an anonymous letter or not, since the designer "gave" his/her idea to all of us, people of Fiji. so that we can see what the general public of Fiji thinks about it. As we are Fijians, our vakamalua attitude is a problem and nobody wants to be the i liuliu, isn't? ;) We get what we deserve I suppose... vakamalua fever... or vucesa? Sunday would be a good day to pen a letter about a national anthem talking about God and Fiji.

Viti noqu Viti! Blue and white marching together.


a citizen of the way the world should be

P.S. As for myself, I LOVE that design!!!

Anonymous said...

@10.50am Agree 1000 fold.
Someone in here was writing about the need for someone like Ghandi and Mandela who can lead "liuliu" and make things happen so everyone can follow. This is not only for a selective few but for the entire nation. This is not about FF or SODELPA or NFP or FLP but for the young and old- the citizens.
Sa kua mada na moce Viti.

mark manning said...

Date: 12 September 2007 11:56:07 AM
To: timesnews@fijitimes.com.fj
Subject: Today's reply to my comment !

Mark Manning of Sydney,Australia (38 minutes ago)It matters not what anyone thinks , this regime decided years ago just exactly what it had in mind and how it would achieve it's goals . Anyone who believes otherwise , is deluding themselves ! The processes this regime have put into place , are merely a smokescreen to hide their real intent . And one can only assume that that is total dominance over all facets of Fijian society . Hasn't anyone in Fiji understood yet , that Fiji is being sold out to the Asians from under your feet , by your own countrymen ?
Indian of India (29 minutes ago)To Mar Manning of Sydney Australia-#34
These silly Fijians do not know- ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! We are controlling their Military now. We will do it slowly until we destroy all the Fijian Institutions and the their land rights. The silly Fijians including the selfish Ganilau and Bai do not know and do not bother. GENOCIDE is the MISSION. It can achieved politically.
Crash Stock Exchange of United States (14 minutes ago)To India and Manning
hahahaha...yeah lets start with crashing the South Pacific Exchange dominated by India and the banks! Maybe the Fijians can start thinking about the 6 billion deal now...hehehehe Take your pick!
Fijians are lousy merchants anyway because their eyes have always been to big for their stomach(traditionally) thus the need to have a corporate body(GCC new look) to curb the crooks that take advantage of the Natadola projects etc. I say Code of conduct is necessary because no chief should be above the law neither are accountants!

Anonymous said...

@ Mark You are probably right, but still our flag makes us dream I suppose. There are so many things to cry about on this Earth, can't we look into the sky and hope?

I see in Cakobau's simplified flag an opened book.
The left (past) has been erased, and the future (blue) is the new Fiji.

One day, all our bad deeds will get erased.

Anonymous said...

IT is my very firm belief that despite how hard a segment of the Fijian population fights government's decision to change the flag, the cause is already lost. This is not what many may want but it appears destined to be the case.

That there will be change is a done deal and fighting it is only an exercise in futility. Their valuable energy should be better used for selecting their choice of a new flag.

This will be more effective and make a difference to Fijians than requesting for a referendum as we all know Government has the mandate from the people to govern and thus has the final say in this matter.

The Fiji Times last Saturday carried detailed reports and opinions of Fijians suggesting that as many as 87 per cent of them preferred to vote on whether our national flag should be changed.

Tebbutt Times Poll also posed the question on what should be the process to select the new flag for Fiji. Interestingly, 65 per cent wanted a national referendum for registered voters, 20.8 per cent wanted the Government to decide, 11.2 per cent wanted the decision to be made by the parliamentarians and 1.8 per cent was not sure.

It should be noted that the Tebbutt Times Poll canvassed the opinions of 1052 randomly selected adults from all walks of life across Fiji and was conducted between June 23 and 25, 2015. Personal telephone interviewing was used with both landline and mobile phone numbers being randomly selected.


Anonymous said...

I was on facebook page of coup4.5.I noticed an article of Aaina and saw the host, that FUGLGY BTICH.I remember the way she was so rude to the members of various political parties she interviewed.

Anonymous said...

I vote for the new version of the Ratu Cakobau flag as our new flag.
Mark Manning and anon 12.44am, do you agree?

Anonymous said...

@4:32AM Interesting to note that no one seems to oppose Ratu Cakobau flag here... and this is our #1 opposition website...
Long life Cakobau!
He is like our Fijian Che, but much better!

Anonymous said...

What is it about those clowns who are wasting public money to advertise those 23 ugly flags on TV when they already have said that the list wasn't final anymore? Isn't it a recognition they have failed?

Poor taste is widespread and they think that the general public will be able to come up with something better than our real Fijian flag?

White and Blue are the colors of our flag people, never let anyone walk on your feet! Never let it happen! Never. Sega ni bau.
Tomorrow the sun will set, so that our sun at last will raise.

Anonymous said...

My opinion about the flag selection process:

1) Have a larger selection of flags with really different designs.
2) Have one web page per flag. Each page should include all the SPECIFIC infos for the flag as some flags like the simplified Cakobau's flag do require a long "explanation". You can't juge a flag just by its visual elements without knowing what's behind...
3) Allow the public to make anonymous suggestions as some people might have good ideas but are not interested to be in the spotlight. It is up to the public to choose the flag, so it doesn't matter where the concepts originate from. The more good flags we have the better. (NZ flag selection was open to anyone, including foreigners!)

Anonymous said...

Fiji flag flies high

Shalveen Chand In Port Moresby, Png
Friday, July 03, 2015

THE Team Fiji contingent raised the Fiji flag with pride as the 22 nations competing in the 15th Pacific Games got together for a flag hoisting ceremony yesterday in Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea.

FASANOC president Joe Rodan said this was the last Pacific Games the noble banner blue would possibly be hoisted and the team felt they had to show off the flag we have come to call ours.

"We wanted to show the Pacific Games and its participating nations that as Fijians we are proud of our country and its flag," he said.

"This is probably the last time this flag would be hoisted at the Pacific Games, so it gives us much honour in showing the other nations, how much we love what symbolises our nation.

"It truly is an honour."

Anonymous said...